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cmac
post Sep 3 2009, 12:09 PM
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Can someone explain to me in retard terms what we have now, what is being proposed, and what the consequences and benefits of each side are? The news web sites no longer report actual news.
Thanks in advance.


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woody
post Sep 3 2009, 12:56 PM
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www.google.com


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Hartmann
post Sep 3 2009, 01:37 PM
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QUOTE (cmac @ Sep 3 2009, 01:09 PM) *
Can someone explain to me in retard terms what we have now, what is being proposed, and what the consequences and benefits of each side are? The news web sites no longer report actual news.
Thanks in advance.


You could always read HR3200. Everyone in the House did rolleyes.gif



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THECHICKEN
post Sep 3 2009, 01:51 PM
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lol someone that feels the same way as i do.


I know i don't want debt going way up, and i know we don't need government taking over yet another industry.... but im not sure what is even being proposed.


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impala454
post Sep 3 2009, 04:33 PM
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Right now we have privatized healthcare. I.e. private companies offer health insurance, you pay them. Most people who work a full time job have some form of health insurance made available to them, and for a good price due to them getting a group rate and/or your employer paying for part or all of the premiums (monthly fee). We also have medicare which is government run for old and/or disabled people, paid for by tax money.

Right now, if you do not have a job and want health insurance, you simply go to a company and enroll, and pay the full premiums yourself (very good insurance can be had for $200-300/month. I've seen some claim as low as $100/month, but surely the coverage is different, etc etc. Just think of it like how car insurance works, except for yourself and much more complicated. I know mine is something like $300/month and my company pays something like $190 of it.

If you do not wish to have health insurance, that is your own prerogative.

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What was originally proposed by Obama was to completely remove privatized healthcare, and make it completely government run and paid for (hello huge tax hike). Everyone would recieve the same level of care automatically simply by living here. I heard rumblings of options to still be able to buy your own plan on top of that, but either way, it would be mandatory and would be paid for by taxes.

So many people were up in arms over this idea, that Obama removed it. He claimed that removing privatized healthcare was only a "small" portion of his bill, but I don't see what the rest of it is, so in that part I have no idea.

Also I believe with his current plan, health insurance still becomes mandatory for all.

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Hope that helps. I think our healthcare system is great as is. People come from all over the world to use it. Just look at current govt run healthcare industries like Canada. People up there wait months just to get an MRI, or routine surgery. Their taxes up there are unbelievable, but then they talk about how healthcare is "free" up there... Keeping it privatized helps keep competition, keeps prices down, and keeps incentives for doctors to be good at what they do. Hell, it also encourages people to actually get healthy and/or get whatever care they need. I know if it had taken several months to get an MRI on my knee, I probably wouldn't have even bothered with it.

What you need to think about when you're forming an opinion is this: The average person probably pays between $100-300/month right now, through their employer, for good health insurance. It comes out of their check pre-taxes, and covers their entire immediate family. Do you think the government can do better than that? IMHO, no friggin way.
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FORSAKENR320
post Sep 3 2009, 05:02 PM
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i agree with impala, thats the gist of what i understand so far. it's just so hard to get the truth right now because it's really hard to pin these policies down in hard facts. due to horrible (and purposely so, i believe) wording of these bills, they are very difficult to understand. everytime one of obama's ideas comes in contact with opposition because people have began to decipher it a bit and caught a clue to his intentions, he blurts out "i didn't say that!" and tries to change everything all over again.

yea, yea... gimmie a tin foil hat. but i think this fuck obama isn't even american born and is going to send all of us back to the stone age


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cmac
post Sep 3 2009, 06:28 PM
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cool. thanks dude.


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cmac
post Sep 3 2009, 06:38 PM
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i know i pay roughly $700 a month for health insurance through my employer. i get injured a lot. a whole lot, so i chose an awesome package.
it would be cool if a large percentage of my paycheck didn't disappear for something that i may or may not use. but because i get hurt a lot, this seems to be the best way for me, because paying a company, or the government on my own would cost more.
correct?


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Psykopath
post Sep 3 2009, 08:05 PM
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QUOTE (FORSAKENR320 @ Sep 3 2009, 06:02 PM) *
i agree with impala, thats the gist of what i understand so far. it's just so hard to get the truth right now because it's really hard to pin these policies down in hard facts. due to horrible (and purposely so, i believe) wording of these bills, they are very difficult to understand. everytime one of obama's ideas comes in contact with opposition because people have began to decipher it a bit and caught a clue to his intentions, he blurts out "i didn't say that!" and tries to change everything all over again.

yea, yea... gimmie a tin foil hat. but i think this fuck obama isn't even american born and is going to send all of us back to the stone age


I know you're slightly on the whack job conservative side, Brandon...but please tell me you're not THAT dense.
/end side track rant.


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impala454
post Sep 3 2009, 08:22 PM
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QUOTE (cmac @ Sep 3 2009, 07:38 PM) *
i know i pay roughly $700 a month for health insurance through my employer. i get injured a lot. a whole lot, so i chose an awesome package.
it would be cool if a large percentage of my paycheck didn't disappear for something that i may or may not use. but because i get hurt a lot, this seems to be the best way for me, because paying a company, or the government on my own would cost more.
correct?

bingo

and re-read this that you posted one more time:
QUOTE
it would be cool if a large percentage of my paycheck didn't disappear for something that i may or may not use

remind you of any other large percentages that come out of your paycheck?? wink.gif

$700 still sounds like a ton... how many injuries have you had?? I have had three surgeries in the past five years or so and I am paying like $190/month. pretty good coverage too... have gone to some of the best specialists around the houston area.
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chook
post Sep 3 2009, 09:15 PM
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Problem is that the same coverage for health care keeps going up faster than inflation. It has come from all the excess management (HMOs)/ Lawsuits / and providing emergency services at a loss (can't deny emergency services). Something has to be done cause its getting worse. I don't think public health care in the answer, but it needs to have an overhaul on the rules.


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FORSAKENR320
post Sep 3 2009, 09:18 PM
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QUOTE (Psykopath @ Sep 3 2009, 09:05 PM) *
I know you're slightly on the whack job conservative side, Brandon...but please tell me you're not THAT dense.
/end side track rant.


he's a fucking alien if nothing else.... he's certainly doing his best to probe americas ass


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QUOTE (Jessica @ May 7 2007, 01:15 PM) *
but yeehaw dammit. YEEHAW
QUOTE (Dogmeat @ Jun 26 2008, 07:51 PM) *
ok once upon a time I jacked myself off retarded.


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impala454
post Sep 3 2009, 09:42 PM
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QUOTE (chook @ Sep 3 2009, 10:15 PM) *
Problem is that the same coverage for health care keeps going up faster than inflation. It has come from all the excess management (HMOs)/ Lawsuits / and providing emergency services at a loss (can't deny emergency services). Something has to be done cause its getting worse. I don't think public health care in the answer, but it needs to have an overhaul on the rules.

I haven't noticed it going up faster than inflation...
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Hartmann
post Sep 4 2009, 07:02 AM
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My problem is that the wording is off on both sides. This isn't a fight for "healthcare for everyone", because everyone already has the ability to get healthcare, it's a fight for "insurance for everyone". The government option isn't very appealing to me because on its face, it isn't competitive, it's monopolistic. How do you compete with someone who doesn't have to make a profit? There is also nothing keeping employers from making a mass exodus away from their current healthcare provider and turning their employees over to the government. Sure, they'll save money on health insurance, but the federal government won't be able to sustain it and will eventually raise taxes.

Everyone in favor of the government option seems to tout Medicare, leaving out the fact that Medicare is a hybrid system and barely works as it is. And, let's not forget that one proposed way to pay for the government option is to cut some of the Medicare spending. rolleyes.gif

I had an open mind with the Obama administration coming in to office, but I think the left and right are being pushed farther and farther away from each other, when in reality our fundamentals are the same, it's just the method of carrying out those fundamentals that are different.


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Inferia
post Sep 4 2009, 08:05 AM
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I'm not sure I agree with the part about everyone is able to get healthcare. I hear from my friend that when she was young, she couldn't go see the doctor cuz her parents job didn't cover health care, and they couldn't afford it either. I hear from my hospital friends that people who don't have health care go to emergency room for any old reason, they would then have to treat them, which is more costly than having a primary physician treat them. Also, it's not a returnable visit for aliments that require multiple visits to the doctors, this also increase the wait time and decrease the level of care for people who are there for actually emergencies.


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