Proof that racism is alive and well Options

[THECHICKEN]

Ok will someone tell me the DIFFERENCE in stories? Because as much as i have read, i have seemed to have missed the part that was the cop being racist. Even from the "harvard proffessor's" view i haven't seen where he is claiming racism. Because ID was asked to be presented? I have a cop friend (a minority omg) who says they always ask for ID in a situation because it is one thing they can do without having any probable cause. Also lets them feel out the person (nervousness etc.).

If the guy refused to show ID then I would expect the officers to become suspcious of the most upstanding WHITE harvard proffessor. I just don't get where in the story the cops became profiling racists... Cops acting like dicks isn't enough (they are trained to act certain ways to semi-intimidate for thier protection). So will someone tell me the "suspected" racial acts done by the cops...

[Inferia]

Ok will someone tell me the DIFFERENCE in stories? Because as much as i have read, i have seemed to have missed the part that was the cop being racist. Even from the "harvard proffessor's" view i haven't seen where he is claiming racism. Because ID was asked to be presented? I have a cop friend (a minority omg) who says they always ask for ID in a situation because it is one thing they can do without having any probable cause. Also lets them feel out the person (nervousness etc.).

If the guy refused to show ID then I would expect the officers to become suspcious of the most upstanding WHITE harvard proffessor. I just don't get where in the story the cops became profiling racists... Cops acting like dicks isn't enough (they are trained to act certain ways to semi-intimidate for thier protection). So will someone tell me the "suspected" racial acts done by the cops...

What happened was Gates came home to find his door jammed, so he and his taxi driver forced the door open. While doing this someone (I can't remember if it's a neighbor or a passer by) saw them do it and reported to the police that someone is trying to break into this house. The cop came by, presumably after the taxi driver had already left, to check out the situation.

In Gates' version, Gates says that he was on the phone with the I can't remember who, some housing place about the door situation. The police comes by, asks for him to step out and demands for an ID. He obliges with the id portion, but does not step outside of the house, and asks for the cop's name and badge in return. The cop refused such request and order and further demands Gates to step out. Presumably he was arrested shortly after that.

In the cop's version, Gates was belligerent at him, yelling at him, calling him a racist. He refused to comply with showing him an ID initially, but eventually do so. Gates had asked him for his name, or yelled at him for his name, several times, which he gave several times. Finally, it was causing a big scene, Gates was arrested at that point.

The issue with profiling comes in towards the end, Gates felt like if were a white harvard professor, the cop would shown him more respect and would not have arrested him.

[cmac]

This situation aside, do those that are arguing race is not a factor in this situation believe that racism no longer exists in this country?

[jonathan83]

i dont think anyone believes that racism no longer exists. racism exists in every country, by every kind of people, and will never go away completely, ever. sad but true.

it's funny how everyone talks about america being so full of racism, when most americans don't realize how racist other countries can be.

take japan and korea for example. i know for a fact there are certain shops, clubs, etc. that have "foreigners not allowed" in them purely because of race. some races OTHER THAN WHITES seriously do believe their race is superior. in china, there are tons of races mixed together, so racism exists there too. there were just reports this week about the uyghurs being killed in large numbers. the main race, the han, seems similar to the whites in america. they're the majority, don't get as much flak, etc. or so what i've read and observed. inferia, i'd like to know your take on that, since i have this hunch that you're of the han race (sorry if i'm completely off though).

[THECHICKEN]

This situation aside, do those that are arguing race is not a factor in this situation believe that racism no longer exists in this country?

Of course not, I just don't see the racism in this situation.

If its just a question of "well they wouldn't have arrested a white person" i fully disagree. I've seen PLENTY of white people arrested for suspected things like this (had a friend have about 5 cop cars surround him at his house guns out because of a mis-identification of his car). If gates did absolutely nothing wrong and did everything the officer asked and was still arrested no questions asked, then i think there would have been a better case. But in this one he was asking for cops badge number showing SOMETHING was going on (some kind of disagreemend or complaint), that very well could have been the cops fault. And if it was the cops fault the arrest would have been wrong too... but I still don't think race had anything to do with it other than a call coming in saying black man with back-pack breaking into a home. If he would have done something "racist" to make gates ask for the badge number i think i would have heard it by now.

[cmac]

it's funny how everyone talks about america being so full of racism, when most americans don't realize how racist other countries can be.

absolutely. i think racism is very alive and well in the u.s. but compared to other countries, we're extremely mild.
i'm still, however, not sure of my opinion of this particular case. i can see both sides.

i believe that racism is often a card that is pulled too quickly because it's an easy copout. "you're harassing me because i'm black"
that would never fly for a Caucasian to say because we're by far the majority. but in some instances I believed people are judged because they're black.
i'd be willing to bet that most people that have gotten on an airplane with a middle eastern man after 9/11 has had a few racist thoughts go through their head. often times stereotypes creep in and can be unavoided.

This post has been edited by cmac: Jul 23 2009, 01:33 PM

[THECHICKEN]

Cop who arrested black scholar is profiling expert

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090723/ap_on_...olar_disorderly

LOL

[chook]

I feel like people who say that people who say there's a problem with race is trying to segregate doesn't understand race or white privilege....

I grew up in south Texas. Most of the people i grew up with are Mexicans and got treaded as such. Can I complain and be considered an activist? No I'm a racist. There is only privlilege where you live. If a problem is an actual racial one then yeah, it is. Someone calling it a racial issue when race was not even an issue is an asshole and causing stratification.

Jasper, yes it was racially motivated although the guy was a drug dealer. Laramie because the guy was a homosexual was also a hate crime. In this case the same thing would happen to anyone, guy just wants to be in the spotlight even if it costs us more as a society.

[chook]

This situation aside, do those that are arguing race is not a factor in this situation believe that racism no longer exists in this country?

Yes it is. In this case all what I know points to it not being racially motivated. I have friends who think anytime I do something that may offend them, its racially motivated. Other friends couldn't care two shits about race. Problem is that we will always have something as an issue. Race is getting replaced with social-economical status. In the past there were more ties between race and social economical status.

What I hate is when people cry wolf, so that society as a whole is tired of these accusations when a real atrocity occurs.

[Hartmann]

I think the problem here is how the situation was handled after the cops responded to the call. The stories are different between the two parties. Furthermore, the following problem is some people believe the cop's story over that of Gates', which may or may not suggest racial overtones. It is okay for someone to call the cops, it is okay for the cops to respond, but it is not okay for the cops to arrest a guy at his own home without a serious issue, and I think that's what the debate is about.

I'm not sure what the right course of action is for Gates, it seems like the Media likes to pick up on these type of news, especially when it involves someone as prominent as Gates. Though, Gates seem to have done his part to fan the flame, which may or may not be what he should be doing. I think in the end, it does one of many things, one get people to talk about race, this I think is not a bad thing. I understand the need for cohesiveness and an end to divisiveness, and I believe this can not be accomplished without discussing the issues. On the other hand, frequent discussions on differences, may result in a lot of tension, but I think in the long run this may be a more beneficial thing.

I don't know if this is a right analogy, but I always bring up issues we have in the relationship with my boyfriend. He doesn't, or didn't I should say, want to deal with for a long time. In the end, I think he felt too that it was important to deal with it earlier on than later when it might be too late or more difficult to deal with. Of course, our issues are private and personal, so it's not something that's worth going to the media about. But there are issues that are important, and prevalent in society. Maybe Gates is too quick in deducing this down to a race-based issue, but that means it's also too quick to deducing it down to not a race-based issue... I don't know when the "right" time it is to talk about this, but I guess it's happening now, so that's why people are talking about it.

I agree with your post but do have an issue with considering what Gates is doing as "discussing the issue" as he is more of accusing rather than discussing. And for the President to insert his opinion before an investigation is done is completely inappropriate and does nothing to add to the "discussion".

Your analogy is a good one though and I agree that it is too soon to say it wasn't a race based issue, just like it's too early to say it is.

There is definitely racism in the U.S. but there is also self-segregation and reverse racism (New Hampshire firefighters). My wife sees the self-segregation everyday at work and in part blames the education system. We have made race so important when taking tests and applying for college because the data on the back end is so important (funding, accredidation, etc.) that race is still a focus. The recent stats that show more mixed racial children being born makes me wonder what the future holds. At what point do we stop caring about race on a form?

[impala454]

from fox news:

A police report of the incident written by Officer Carlos Figueroa, who responded to the call with Crowley, says Crowley was already in the house when he walked in. The report says Crowley had asked Gates for some identification and Gates shouted that he would not give any information and called the sergeant a racist.

According to the report, Gates then yelled, "This is what happens to black men in America." When Crowley tried to calm him down, Gates shouted, "You don't know who you're messing with."

So according to the police report, he even refused to give his ID.

[Hartmann]

Gates' comments on CNN were on the inappropriate side. To paraphrase "it's taught me that black people or poor people should be wary of the police". What?! So black people are like poor people? Give me a break...

[woody]

i hope a real thief breaks into gates' home while he's there

[impala454]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/top/all/6545595.html
The police dept's union involved is asking for an apology from the President. This is awesome. That douchebag shoves his foot in his mouth every time he speaks without a teleprompter.

[cmac]

Did you catch The Daily Show last night when Jon Stewart drilled him for his response.? Hilarious.