Where do you stand, On different social things Options

[Hartmann]

I am guessing that given the more left leaning of this board, the answers are fairly obvious but I was wondering where people stood on the ideas of self-reliance, government intervention, and work.

My firm belief is that people as a whole must be self-reliant, that government should stay out unless it is needed, and hard work is necessary to succeed.

Where do you stand?

I listen to my brothers talk about what they want to do and I'm amazed at their goals. Nothing to do with hard work or being self-reliant but more along the lines of American Idol and "famous". It is one thing to dream of being a baseball player when you're young but I get this impression that we are becoming more and more focused on the easy route rather than the tough but rewarding one.

[Inferia]

I listen to my brothers talk about what they want to do and I'm amazed at their goals. Nothing to do with hard work or being self-reliant but more along the lines of American Idol and "famous". It is one thing to dream of being a baseball player when you're young but I get this impression that we are becoming more and more focused on the easy route rather than the tough but rewarding one.

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

Anyway, I don't think the left believes in giving people a free pass at life. Many of the liberal agendas lie within societal unbalance, or creating a more balance society in a seemingly unbalanced society. This many interprets as relying on the government or taking the easy route probably by both people who may benefit from their policies or the people who may suffer as a result. Personally, I believe that people must be self-reliant and hard work is necessary to succeed as well. Though this doesn't mean that people shouldn't get a legs up for being born or raised in unfortunate situations.

I've been watching this show recently on the Food Network, called the Chef Jeff Project. Chef Jeff is an ex-con turned successful chef through his hard work. The show revolves around 10 or so people in their mid-20s who are trying to turn their life around. At one point they talked about how these people grew up in an environment who didn't have any support for getting out of that environment. To some degree they were like the people at the homeless shelter, some have lost so much hope for even an ounce of possibility that they too can make it if they work hard enough. As an immigrant, I somewhat understand that, being young and told that you will never be like "one of them". After awhile, these messages are so apart of you that it's hard to shake. I can only imagine that some people have it even worse. One of the things that come about with Obama's elected as president is that it gave a new generation of young people hope and belief in that they too can do it.

[Spectatrix]

He's concerned about people getting caught up in the dream of easy success, i.e. winning the lottery, suddenly making it big as a singer/actor, etc. rather than focusing on realistic goals that require hard work.

[Inferia]

He's concerned about people getting caught up in the dream of easy success, i.e. winning the lottery, suddenly making it big as a singer/actor, etc. rather than focusing on realistic goals that require hard work.

I see, well in that case, I'm pretty sure real life will hit them soon and hard.

[Hartmann]

I've been watching this show recently on the Food Network, called the Chef Jeff Project. Chef Jeff is an ex-con turned successful chef through his hard work. The show revolves around 10 or so people in their mid-20s who are trying to turn their life around. At one point they talked about how these people grew up in an environment who didn't have any support for getting out of that environment. To some degree they were like the people at the homeless shelter, some have lost so much hope for even an ounce of possibility that they too can make it if they work hard enough. As an immigrant, I somewhat understand that, being young and told that you will never be like "one of them". After awhile, these messages are so apart of you that it's hard to shake. I can only imagine that some people have it even worse. One of the things that come about with Obama's elected as president is that it gave a new generation of young people hope and belief in that they too can do it.

I didn't mean to make it sound like a leftist ideal that people not work hard. However, it is in the left's agenda to give more government aid to a lot of people who do not work hard.

Obama bringing "hope" is something I do not understand. He's a man who, when you read his story, did not really have it nearly as rough as some people have experienced. I do not think we will see a cultural shift, if we should, then why did we not see one after MLK Jr? or Malcolm X?

I spend a lot of time in lower income areas here in Houston and when I get the chance, other parts of the world and I don't see these messages of never being "one of them". In fact, I see quite the opposite, people who are actually very driven to do well, but there are always those who don't want to work and want someone else to do it for them.

[Hartmann]

I see, well in that case, I'm pretty sure real life will hit them soon and hard.

I'm not sure though. This is a cultural thing, not some one off. It's perpetually growing to the point that this is how some people spend their entire week.

[Seeker]

IMO people should rely on themselves and the government should stay out of peoples' private lives. If you depend on anyone but yourself then your life card needs revoked and instant death becomes your last and final handout.

If everyone lived as in the book "Walden" the world would be better off.

Unfortunately the majority of us on Techsans are dependent on another source and that source is made up of a multitude of corporations. We work for one, eat food processed by one, drink water that was bottled by one etc. We live in a corporate-fascist country and the Democrats and Republicans are both members of the same party, the Corporate party. Corporations suck the vitality and meaning out of life.

[Hartmann]

If everyone lived as in the book "Walden" the world would be better off.

I was waiting for a Walden reference to get dropped.

[Dogmeat]

The government needs to stay the fuck out of the financial sector and people's lives.

[Inferia]

I didn't mean to make it sound like a leftist ideal that people not work hard. However, it is in the left's agenda to give more government aid to a lot of people who do not work hard.

Obama bringing "hope" is something I do not understand. He's a man who, when you read his story, did not really have it nearly as rough as some people have experienced. I do not think we will see a cultural shift, if we should, then why did we not see one after MLK Jr? or Malcolm X?

I spend a lot of time in lower income areas here in Houston and when I get the chance, other parts of the world and I don't see these messages of never being "one of them". In fact, I see quite the opposite, people who are actually very driven to do well, but there are always those who don't want to work and want someone else to do it for them.

I understand now, I didn't know what you meant before. I think you do see some sort of cultural shift with Obama. It's true that he may not have it as hard as some people in this country or world, but for many people, especially minorities, we see this as a sign of hope. I remember when I was young, I was told if you worked hard you could get what you want, but I was never told that if I work hard enough, I can be anything I want to be. For whatever reason this may be, my parents' own judgments, or they truly believe that as a foreigner that you could never be accepted by the American people. I grew up believing in that. And I believe, there are many parents and kids around the country or world who see this and believe that they too if they try hard enough could be anything they want to be.

[Inferia]

Unfortunately the majority of us on Techsans are dependent on another source and that source is made up of a multitude of corporations. We work for one, eat food processed by one, drink water that was bottled by one etc. We live in a corporate-fascist country and the Democrats and Republicans are both members of the same party, the Corporate party. Corporations suck the vitality and meaning out of life.

I think unless you live in the woods by your self, it is very hard to be purely independent. Society is built on interdependence, since the beginning of time. Men depended on women to bare children, women depended on men to provide food an shelter. If we're truly meant to be self sufficient, then we'd bore our own kids and kill for our own food.

I am personally fairly left winged, but I see the benefit of having corporations and a stable well balanced government. My dad's family were farmers, they grew their own food, they built their own house, dug their own wells, cut their own firewood and to some degree it's probably about as independent as a group of people can get. All in all it sounded like life was hard, probably unnecessarily hard. People around the world are working for an easier life, for themselves and for their children. There are places where people work so they can earn the money to buy bottled water because their lakes and rivers are too contaminated for people to drink, and for those who can't afford it, they drink the contaminated water. They spend that extra money so they can get foreign products because their own products are not regulated enough to be safe. I feel like there's nothing wrong with it, to a degree. Is it like what they say about scientists that scientists are lazy they always try to find the easiest way of doing something?

[Seeker]

I'm not advocating being completely self-reliant; just more-so than we all are today. I think cities foster an unhealthy dependence on corporations and the government. I think we should do away with large urban centers and live in small rural communities scattered across the States. I think we should do away with corporations and each one of us take up a skill. For example, I could be the local shoe-smith in my village and provide shoes for everyone. If someone doesn't like my shoes they can go to a neighboring village and buy some from the shoe-smith there. Corporations would become a thing of the past and that would be a good thing as Corporations are too powerful and get away with too many evil things. They also lobby the government for changes that are beneficial them but not for individuals or the people as a whole.

[Inferia]

I'm not advocating being completely self-reliant; just more-so than we all are today. I think cities foster an unhealthy dependence on corporations and the government. I think we should do away with large urban centers and live in small rural communities scattered across the States. I think we should do away with corporations and each one of us take up a skill. For example, I could be the local shoe-smith in my village and provide shoes for everyone. If someone doesn't like my shoes they can go to a neighboring village and buy some from the shoe-smith there. Corporations would become a thing of the past and that would be a good thing as Corporations are too powerful and get away with too many evil things. They also lobby the government for changes that are beneficial them but not for individuals or the people as a whole.

Well, I think that small rural communities scattered across the States would mean a major source for global climate change. That "going" to a neighboring village means that there will be 200 million cars on the street to buy that shoe you can't get in your village. This would also be an unhealthy dependence on unreliable, nonrenewable fossil fuel which is government by large governments and large corporations. As unhealthy and polluted as cities may seem, they are "better" for the environment. Instead of every family destroying a piece of natural land to build their 3 bedroom house with a garage, you build up inside of wide. Shipping of material goods are more centralized, and people are less dependent on motor transportation in their every day life. Perhaps the US can afford to "sprawl", the rest of the world can't afford to do such a thing, if they did so, there wouldn't be room for farm land, thus making them even more reliant on someone else.

[Billy]

You guys advocating Government stay out of people's lives take way too much for granted. If it weren't for the government, I doubt many people on this message board could have even gotten an education. I know my parents couldn't pay for private school.

[Seeker]

Well, I think that small rural communities scattered across the States would mean a major source for global climate change. That "going" to a neighboring village means that there will be 200 million cars on the street to buy that shoe you can't get in your village. This would also be an unhealthy dependence on unreliable, nonrenewable fossil fuel which is government by large governments and large corporations. As unhealthy and polluted as cities may seem, they are "better" for the environment. Instead of every family destroying a piece of natural land to build their 3 bedroom house with a garage, you build up inside of wide. Shipping of material goods are more centralized, and people are less dependent on motor transportation in their every day life. Perhaps the US can afford to "sprawl", the rest of the world can't afford to do such a thing, if they did so, there wouldn't be room for farm land, thus making them even more reliant on someone else.

Are you kidding me? I think shipping leather and other shoe supplies from the U.S. to China to manufacture the shoes and then shipping the finished product back to the U.S. is infinitely more polluting and bad for the environment than just driving to the neighboring town a buying and pair of shoes. Use some common sense.