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> Vegeterian, From a proud meat eatin texan
Spectatrix
post Jul 27 2008, 04:53 PM
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_meat#Health_effects

But... I think the anti-red meat stuff is largely bullshit. If you're going to eat meat, you should eat a variety. Eating just T-bones or just bacon or just boneless, skinless chicken breast... any of those extremes is bad. If you're going to be hugely preferential on meat, I would go with eating more organ meat -- more nutrients for the calories consumed.

IMO, that's what nutrition boils down to: balancing nutrient density against calorie density. The big strength of a well-balanced vegetarian diet is that you're concentrating on foods that have a lot of vitamins and fiber for the calories you're consuming, whereas the typical American omnivorous diet includes a lot of muscle meat, which is not the best nutritional bargain.


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QUOTE (pebkac @ Oct 14 2006, 03:15 PM) *
You and your logic.

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http://xkcd.com/386/
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impala454
post Jul 27 2008, 10:22 PM
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yeah I read the wiki thing before posting in this thread. my answer to it is:

1. what doesn't cause cancer nowadays?
2. saturated fat is in a lot of foods other than red meat, many of which those who swear off red meat still eat. and saying saturated fat = cardiovascular disease is stupid. eating shittons of saturated fat, sure. having a few servings a week or even a serving a day (provided some of them are fairly lean) is fine.

but merely the consumption of red meat in itself is not some poison that people make it out to be. it doesn't decide how healthy you are, or mean that red meat is inherently unhealthy. go up to an NFL running back and ask them how much red meat they eat. or even just a better than average, fairly fit person in a gym. I know back when I dropped about 60 lbs, I definitely still ate red meat. but it was stuff like grilled pork chops and meals using 80/20 beef instead of fast food burgers & 16oz ribeyes.

I just don't see any valid reason for completely removing it from your diet in order to be healthier. If you completely replaced every red meat calorie, gram of fat, carbs, protein, and fiber, you wouldn't really be any healthier.

Now the people who don't eat meat because they think it's gross or because they don't like eating fuzzy cutesy animals, while a stupid reason IMHO, that is more of a valid reason.
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Mommy
post Jul 28 2008, 12:01 PM
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I think it's just a lifestyle that aids in losing weight. I mean, IMO red meat bulks you up. If you don't exercise enough, that protein will just become fat. If you lift weights and shit, though, that protein becomes muscle. I don't even know if what I am saying is scientific, but that's how it seems to me. If you eat too much protein, it's just going to be extra shit you don't need. By cutting your consumption of red meat, you lower your intake of protein and saturated fat. You can find what you need in fish and chicken. I just seem to notice a trend between people who eat a lot of red meat and those that don't. The ones that do are bulky (whether it be fat or muscle). That's what I am basing my assumptions on. I am too lazy to research if my assumptions are correct. Let's just say, I eat a VERY VERY high carb diet, and 5 days after having my son, I had already dropped almost 30 pounds of the 35 I put on during my pregnancy. I have eaten 1 bite of red meat in the past 8 years. Carbs aren't the enemy. Either that or I have the metabolism of a 4 year old. All I can say is YAY! I'm cute and small again. I just need to tighten my tummy a bit, and I'll be back to the old me.
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impala454
post Jul 28 2008, 02:00 PM
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there is no one particular food that is "the enemy". fat, carbs, protein, none of that is the enemy either. it's the portion that's people's problems. it's having a 16 oz steak when a 6 oz steak would have been plenty. but merely ingesting some red meat does not somehow throw off your whole plan or hurt you in any way, in fact it's good for you in the right quantity. just like red wine is supposedly good for you. well it's not so good for you if you drink a bottle per day and destroy your liver. it's exactly the same thing, it doesn't mean staving off red wine will make you healthier. it's always been funny to me, it's the ones who don't eat red meat who like to tell those that do that it's unhealthy. just stick to your own reasons for not eating it... you don't like it, think it's gross, don't want to eat mammals, etc, those are fine reasons. but unhealthy, it aint.

and red meat does not "bulk you up". exercising is the only thing that bulks you up. all that you require is to eat enough calories to get your body through the workout. some protein might help, and red meat has some creatine in it that will help you recover, but that's not going to make that big of a difference for any of us (short of maybe zach or anyone else who's doing specific training for a sport).

and yes, you probably do have the metabolism of a 4 year old tongue.gif. we'll see if that metabolism still holds when you're 30 wink.gif
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Mommy
post Jul 28 2008, 02:03 PM
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Red meat in moderation is definitely not bad. I never meant to suggest that if I did. My point is that for some people, weaning themselves off of overeating a particular food sometimes means cutting the food out all together.
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impala454
post Jul 28 2008, 02:12 PM
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yeah, cutting out a particular food is fine, but IMHO and through my own experiences, it's much easier to eat less of something than it is to completely cut it out. especially if it's one of your favorite foods. in my particular experience it's the exercise that effects the diet, not the other way around. i.e. once i get a good routine going, my cravings actually change and i don't care for the fried foods and such. anyhow if you just look at how the red meat is served, i think that's where you find the problem. eating a hamburger isn't that unhealthy. it's having it on a buttered white bread bun, with 1-2 TB of mayo, a thick slice of cheese, 3-4 strips of bacon, 2 handfuls of fries, and a 64 oz full sugar soda that's unhealthy. but people associate eating a hamburger with all of those things. if you go and look at a place like whataburger's nutrition info, if you have just a reg old hamburger w/o cheese (or hell, even with) and mustard instead of mayo (i think you can get a wheat bun too?), it's not all that bad at all.
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Mommy
post Jul 28 2008, 02:17 PM
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Exercise is definitely the key... along with a good sleep pattern. Once you get those down, the body usually craves nutrients and you eat better.
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The Fanatic
post Jan 7 2009, 12:36 AM
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Trying the vegetarian thing again.


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A psychotic world we live in. The madmen are in power. How long have we known this? Faced this? And--how many of us do know it? Perhaps if you know you are insane then you are not insane. Or you are becoming sane, finally. Waking up. I suppose only a few are aware of all this. Isolated persons here and there. But the broad masses... what do they think? All these hundreds of thousands in this city, here. Do they imagine that they live in a sane world? Or do they guess, glimpse, the truth...?

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Spectatrix
post Jan 7 2009, 10:24 AM
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Cool. I'm moving towards a more vegetarian diet.

Last night I made a yummy salad... pear, blueberries, and strawberries in poppyseed dressing, over arugula, topped with gorgonzola crumbles and maple-candied walnuts.


--------------------
QUOTE (pebkac @ Oct 14 2006, 03:15 PM) *
You and your logic.

QUOTE (Foamy)

http://xkcd.com/386/
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Mommy
post Jan 7 2009, 01:54 PM
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How much money do you spend on groceries in a month?
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Spectatrix
post Jan 7 2009, 02:44 PM
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QUOTE (Mommy @ Jan 7 2009, 01:54 PM) *
How much money do you spend on groceries in a month?

Who, me? About $400 for the two of us. $100 of that is deliveries of local, organic produce from a Community Supported Agriculture program we belong to. Last month we spent closer to $500, but that was with entertaining, making stuff for the holidays, etc.


--------------------
QUOTE (pebkac @ Oct 14 2006, 03:15 PM) *
You and your logic.

QUOTE (Foamy)

http://xkcd.com/386/
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Mommy
post Jan 7 2009, 02:46 PM
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Oh. that's not so bad. You eat a lot of stuff that seems expensive.
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Spectatrix
post Jan 7 2009, 02:53 PM
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Yeah, I really don't spend much more now on groceries than I did in grad school. If I really cared, I'm sure I could pare back the grocery budget to $300 or less. We spend as much or more on eating out, though, which we're gradually trying to change. It's not that we eat out a ton so much as go to higher-priced places (sushi, steakhouse, etc.) when we do.


--------------------
QUOTE (pebkac @ Oct 14 2006, 03:15 PM) *
You and your logic.

QUOTE (Foamy)

http://xkcd.com/386/
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