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> Is this reasonable?
Mommy
post Mar 20 2008, 12:25 PM
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Oh no. I had Curzer and Chant for most of my upper level classes. Webb too, and I liked him...just didn't find him extraordinary. My experience was good. I didn't like my fist impression of Kim or Nathan so I dropped their classes. Schaller and I got into it all the time, but after having him one semester, I knew better than to take him again. Then there was some other guest professor from Oxford that I had. I didn't like him much, but I learned a lot from his class. My bitter feelings toward college have always been toward the cost of school and how I feel I don't really think I got what I paid for. Same would go for any school. Looking back, I think I should have gone into the military. I have thought that for years. So, yes, I have bitter sentiments toward school (yet here I am back in school...stupid, i know), but not toward the programs I was in.
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impala454
post Mar 20 2008, 12:26 PM
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QUOTE (Jessica @ Mar 20 2008, 01:18 PM) *
again, you're not understanding what Im saying. I never said that degree vs no degree. I said a degree is a waste of money except to write it on a resume. I dont think that anyone in a public state university is challenged to their full potential when 1) the state makes you learn shit you should have learned in high school and 2) there is a severe lacking i real world trainging. Major classes are too theoretical and not enough hands on. Thats just MY OPINION. Im not asking you to agree. Neither does it mean that I skated the program (like Blue has been assuming) so I didnt get the "full affect of college"...whatever that means

I dunno how I'm misunderstanding "college in general is the biggest fucking waste of money ever". You put the disclaimer "unless you're getting what blue said" which he said specific "sciences fields or corporate law."
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Mommy
post Mar 20 2008, 12:36 PM
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QUOTE (impala454 @ Mar 20 2008, 01:26 PM) *
I dunno how I'm misunderstanding "college is the biggest fucking waste of money ever". You put the disclaimer "unless you're getting what blue said" which he said specific "sciences fields or corporate law."
Ok...seriously. You need to take some logic courses. I'm not meaning that in a mean way either. I just don't think you can think on a level that others can. You read things way too literally and you never read past that.

Let me explain

College is a waste of money because most fields require graduate work and beyond to fair well in salary... The obvious exceptions to that would be computer science, engineering, and possibly architecture. Oh and nursing. Therefore, in essence, most of us spent tens of thousands of dollars to take 90 hours of stuff we should have learned in high school (which is free) and only 30 hours of stuff that actually pertains to what we want to do. That's $1000 per course for our "future".... Now, if one were to major in lets just say...psychology. The average psychology major coming out of school makes less than $26,000 a year. That's horse shit. Now, is that degree a stepping stone? Yes. But it shouldn't be like that. We shouldn't have to pay $30,000 for a stepping stone to other things we are going to have to pay even more for (grad school) or low salaries we are going to have to settle for (something to write on your resume for an entry-level job that had high schools done their jobs we would have been able to do coming out of high school).
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Divergent Realit...
post Mar 20 2008, 01:20 PM
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architecture requires grad work, unless you want to be a cad monkey in a cubicle the rest of your life.


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impala454
post Mar 20 2008, 01:22 PM
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QUOTE (Jessica @ Mar 20 2008, 01:36 PM) *
Ok...seriously. You need to take some logic courses. I'm not meaning that in a mean way either. I just don't think you can think on a level that others can. You read things way too literally and you never read past that.

Please everyone dispense with these stupid bullshit comments. "you need to learn to read" "you need to learn logic". You made a statement, "in general college is a fucking waste of money" with the exception blue mentioned about science fields. there is absolutely nothing figurative about that statement. there's no implications, other than college is a fucking waste of money. don't back out of what you said, or come back on me and act like I'm stupid or some shit and that I don't understand what you said. all you have to do is further extend your comments and admit that what you said about college being worthless is dumb, or in the least, incomplete as far as what you failed to communicate. insulting my intelligence doesn't make your comment make any more sense. Nor does any "logics course" in existence (if those even exist). maybe read your own shit and think about it before you hit the submit button.

QUOTE (Jessica @ Mar 20 2008, 01:36 PM) *
Let me explain

College is a waste of money because most fields require graduate work and beyond to fair well in salary... The obvious exceptions to that would be computer science, engineering, and possibly architecture.

This is completely subjective and depends on what your definition of a good salary is. Like I said before, I know several people who make well into the 40s, 2-3 years out of school, with bachelors business degrees. IMHO this is a good salary. Sure, they started off at $26-28k, but you gotta prove your worth before you get paid. In ALL fields. Your definition of what a good salary may differ I dunno.

QUOTE (Jessica @ Mar 20 2008, 01:36 PM) *
Therefore, in essence, most of us spent tens of thousands of dollars to take 90 hours of stuff we should have learned in high school

I agree with you here, but it doesn't = college being worthless. I think there's something to be said for taking some of those classes. 90 hours though? Naw... I think I had about 24 or so at most. Two english, two history, one govt, and 2-3 others.

QUOTE (Jessica @ Mar 20 2008, 01:36 PM) *
(which is free)

You'll find out as soon as you buy a house just how "free" public schools are.

QUOTE (Jessica @ Mar 20 2008, 01:36 PM) *
and only 30 hours of stuff that actually pertains to what we want to do.

This isn't anywhere near right either. 30 hours is how much you need for something like a minor.

QUOTE (Jessica @ Mar 20 2008, 01:36 PM) *
That's $1000 per course for our "future".... Now, if one were to major in lets just say...psychology. The average psychology major coming out of school makes less than $26,000 a year. That's horse shit.

Why is it horse shit? What should a psychology major be paid coming out of school? $40k? $50k? $100k? What job would you do to earn that much money? I am the owner of a ________ company, tell me why I should pay you $X right out of college with a psychology degree.

QUOTE (Jessica @ Mar 20 2008, 01:36 PM) *
Now, is that degree a stepping stone? Yes. But it shouldn't be like that. We shouldn't have to pay $30,000 for a stepping stone to other things we are going to have to pay even more for (grad school) or low salaries we are going to have to settle for (something to write on your resume for an entry-level job that had high schools done their jobs we would have been able to do coming out of high school).

Oh, so now it really comes out. You're just pissy that you didnt make booku cash right out of school, so it must be the college in general's fault, not yours. This really should be moved to the "Pussification of America" thread. Sorry to burst your bubble, but there are very few degrees where this happens (even in engineering, just on a lesser scale). If you sit down, shut up, take your low paying job right of school, and make something of yourself, you will end up making much more, and the $30k you borrowed from the govt at 3% interest will end up being the best investment you ever made. ALL degrees are stepping stones/door openers/etc, not the end all be all of your career. Hell, after your first couple years, nobody gives a shit what degree you got or where it was from. All they care about from that point on is your experience.
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Mommy
post Mar 20 2008, 02:42 PM
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As stated before... no one can break a quote down like Impala.
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Epic
post Mar 20 2008, 02:44 PM
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one update

18 hours for a minor

30 hours for a major
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jwttu
post Mar 20 2008, 02:44 PM
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QUOTE (Epic @ Mar 20 2008, 03:44 PM) *
one update

18 hours for a minor

30 hours for a major

my minor was 21 hrs
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Epic
post Mar 20 2008, 02:45 PM
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i'm talking standard/average
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impala454
post Mar 20 2008, 02:51 PM
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QUOTE (Jessica @ Mar 20 2008, 03:42 PM) *
As stated before... no one can break a quote down like Impala.

smile.gif
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Mommy
post Mar 20 2008, 02:59 PM
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QUOTE (impala454 @ Mar 20 2008, 02:22 PM) *
Please everyone dispense with these stupid bullshit comments. "you need to learn to read" "you need to learn logic". You made a statement, "in general college is a fucking waste of money" with the exception blue mentioned about science fields. there is absolutely nothing figurative about that statement. there's no implications, other than college is a fucking waste of money. don't back out of what you said, or come back on me and act like I'm stupid or some shit and that I don't understand what you said. all you have to do is further extend your comments and admit that what you said about college being worthless is dumb, or in the least, incomplete as far as what you failed to communicate. insulting my intelligence doesn't make your comment make any more sense. Nor does any "logics course" in existence (if those even exist). maybe read your own shit and think about it before you hit the submit button.
logic courses do exist. I didn't back out of my statement. I stand by it. Undergrad is a waste of money


QUOTE
This is completely subjective and depends on what your definition of a good salary is. Like I said before, I know several people who make well into the 40s, 2-3 years out of school, with bachelors business degrees. IMHO this is a good salary. Sure, they started off at $26-28k, but you gotta prove your worth before you get paid. In ALL fields. Your definition of what a good salary may differ I dunno.
business can yield some good earnings. Most accounting majors have to have a master's though. It just depends on what kind of business you want to go into.


QUOTE
I agree with you here, but it doesn't = college being worthless. I think there's something to be said for taking some of those classes. 90 hours though? Naw... I think I had about 24 or so at most. Two english, two history, one govt, and 2-3 others.
The standard is 30 hours for a bachelors in arts and sciences majors...maybe 36 at max. You have to have 120 hours for those majors to graduate. The 90 hours consist of English, history, science, physical fitness, multicultural studies, foreign language, etc. I know it's different for engineering because you aren't required to take foreign language studies, but there are still at least 60 hours outside of math and your major that you have to take.


QUOTE
You'll find out as soon as you buy a house just how "free" public schools are.
I'm fully aware of how the school system acquires funding, thank you. Not everyone is a homeowner, though


QUOTE
This isn't anywhere near right either. 30 hours is how much you need for something like a minor.
Wrong... but I did forgot about minors. Minors are 18 hours (at least in arts and sciences)... subtract 18 from 90 hours... still a lot of BS


QUOTE
Why is it horse shit? What should a psychology major be paid coming out of school? $40k? $50k? $100k? What job would you do to earn that much money? I am the owner of a ________ company, tell me why I should pay you $X right out of college with a psychology degree.
because most people going into college are 18-19 years old and don't know that they are picking a degree that will get them no more pay than before they went to school. They aren't told that they will need a phd in that field to make money. They just think "ooo I get to pick apart people's minds"... We need to inform these people what the real world past college is like.


QUOTE
Oh, so now it really comes out. You're just pissy that you didnt make booku cash right out of school, so it must be the college in general's fault, not yours. This really should be moved to the "Pussification of America" thread. Sorry to burst your bubble, but there are very few degrees where this happens (even in engineering, just on a lesser scale). If you sit down, shut up, take your low paying job right of school, and make something of yourself, you will end up making much more, and the $30k you borrowed from the govt at 3% interest will end up being the best investment you ever made. ALL degrees are stepping stones/door openers/etc, not the end all be all of your career. Hell, after your first couple years, nobody gives a shit what degree you got or where it was from. All they care about from that point on is your experience.
Ok, you don't know where I have worked and what I have done so quit talking like you know me. First off, I don't care about money like that. I just think its BS how much money we pay for very little having to do with our major. I'm not pissy that I don't have a job right now (need I remind you that Im pregnant and in school so a job on top of that would be a lot for me). Im not worried about the job market when I graduate. I will find what I an and work my way up just like everyone else (even those without degrees mind you.) I'm pissy that it cost me the exhorbitant amount of money that it did to acquire 2 bachelor degrees in four years.


QUOTE (jwttu @ Mar 20 2008, 03:44 PM) *
my minor was 21 hrs
your minor was probably more because one of your classes required for it needed a pre-req
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impala454
post Mar 20 2008, 03:03 PM
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Straight from the 2007-2008 TTU Course Catalog:
Core Curriculum Requirements:
A. Communication: 9 hrs
-Written English: 6 hrs
-Oral (heheh): 3 hrs
B. Math: 3 hrs
C. Natural Science: 8 hrs
D. Tech & Applied Science: 3 hrs (new to me)
E. Humanities: 3 hrs
F. Visual & Perf Arts: 3 hrs
G. Social & Behavioral Sciences: 15 hrs
-US History: 6 hrs
-Poli Sci (US & TX): 6 hrs
-Individual or Group Behavior: 3 rs

minimum hrs for graduation:
CS: 123
BA various majors: 120
Architecture: 131

here's the catalog if anyone cares to look around: http://www.depts.ttu.edu/officialpublicati...2008Catalog.pdf
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Mommy
post Mar 20 2008, 03:06 PM
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QUOTE (impala454 @ Mar 20 2008, 04:03 PM) *
Straight from the 2007-2008 TTU Course Catalog:
Core Curriculum Requirements:
A. Communication: 9 hrs
-Written English: 6 hrs
-Oral (heheh): 3 hrs
B. Math: 3 hrs
C. Natural Science: 8 hrs
D. Tech & Applied Science: 3 hrs (new to me)
E. Humanities: 3 hrs
F. Visual & Perf Arts: 3 hrs
G. Social & Behavioral Sciences: 15 hrs
-US History: 6 hrs
-Poli Sci (US & TX): 6 hrs
-Individual or Group Behavior: 3 rs

minimum hrs for graduation:
CS: 123
BA various majors: 120
Architecture: 131

here's the catalog if anyone cares to look around: http://www.depts.ttu.edu/officialpublicati...2008Catalog.pdf
exactly... I said for engineering it was over 60 hours of BS... that's 68 hours right there. Tech and applied sciences has always been a requirement. You may just not have noticed because you were CS and your classes applied towards that. So i guess 65 hours of BS for you. Arts and sciences need a minimum of 11 hours of foreign language also. Most have to take 12 or more though


Believe me, I know that handbook inside and out. You need 40 hours of jr/sr work to graduate. At least 120 for to graduate. I took high level core classes (like I substituted a music technology junior level class for the general class that you take for tech and applied sciences that is only fr level) that way I would meet the 40 hours faster. I made sure some of my major classes applied toward core classes. That way, at the end, I had finished all the requirements except meeting the 120 hours and I took a bunch of fun BS classes.
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impala454
post Mar 20 2008, 03:54 PM
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QUOTE (Jessica @ Mar 20 2008, 03:59 PM) *
I didn't back out of my statement. I stand by it. Undergrad is a waste of money

That wasn't your statement. Your statement was that college is a waste of money. But yeah you're right, a one time investment of government money at an infanitessimal interest rate that starts out making you at least $25-30k/yr, increasing in return for the next 40 years is a waste of money. rolleyes.gif.

QUOTE (Jessica @ Mar 20 2008, 03:59 PM) *
Most accounting majors have to have a master's though.

Is catherine sitting at your computer? What ass did you pull this idea out of?

QUOTE (Jessica @ Mar 20 2008, 03:59 PM) *
The standard is 30 hours for a bachelors in arts and sciences majors...maybe 36 at max. You have to have 120 hours for those majors to graduate. The 90 hours consist of English, history, science, physical fitness, multicultural studies, foreign language, etc. I know it's different for engineering because you aren't required to take foreign language studies, but there are still at least 60 hours outside of math and your major that you have to take.

There is not a single degree plan in that catalog where you take 90 hrs of bullshit. Find it for me and show me the degree plan if you think this is true. No, not all of your classes will say:
CS 1234
CS 1235
CS 1236
But just because it doesnt say that doesn't mean that class doesn't pertain to your major, or a well rounded education in general. Most lay people wouldn't think physics has much to do with computer science. Well they'd be wrong. No need to go into why because it's beyond the scope of this thread.

QUOTE (Jessica @ Mar 20 2008, 03:59 PM) *
I'm fully aware of how the school system acquires funding, thank you.

Then why would you assume public schools are "free"?

QUOTE (Jessica @ Mar 20 2008, 03:59 PM) *
Not everyone is a homeowner, though

Unless you're living in a cardboard box, way out in the sticks, or are a senior citizen, you're living under the roof of someone who pays school taxes.

QUOTE (Jessica @ Mar 20 2008, 03:59 PM) *
Wrong... but I did forgot about minors. Minors are 18 hours (at least in arts and sciences)...

You got me there.

QUOTE (Jessica @ Mar 20 2008, 03:59 PM) *
subtract 18 from 90 hours... still a lot of BS

This would really depend on the major. If you have some kind of general Arts & Sciences degree, sure you might have a lot of extra general BS... it's a generalized degree. But just because I have 55 hours of "official" CS courses does not mean that 120 - 55 = 65 hrs of BS. Tons of non-CS courses which had very close ties to my major were taken.

QUOTE (Jessica @ Mar 20 2008, 03:59 PM) *
because most people going into college are 18-19 years old and don't know that they are picking a degree that will get them no more pay than before they went to school. They aren't told that they will need a phd in that field to make money. They just think "ooo I get to pick apart people's minds"... We need to inform these people what the real world past college is like.

This is very true, and indicative of help needed at the high school & entry level college counselor level. Not to mention the BS that instructors often feed students of how much they should make upon graduation. Perceptions of making lots of money though, do not make college a waste of money.

QUOTE (Jessica @ Mar 20 2008, 03:59 PM) *
Ok, you don't know where I have worked and what I have done so quit talking like you know me.

I didn't claim to know you, all I'm doing is reading what you have to say. If you had started off somewhere making good money you wouldn't have bitched about it two sentences above.

QUOTE (Jessica @ Mar 20 2008, 03:59 PM) *
First off, I don't care about money like that.

If you don't, why are we having this conversation? Three sentences above you're complaining about your bachelors in psychology not making any money right out of school.

QUOTE (Jessica @ Mar 20 2008, 03:59 PM) *
I just think its BS how much money we pay for very little having to do with our major. I'm not pissy that I don't have a job right now (need I remind you that Im pregnant and in school so a job on top of that would be a lot for me). Im not worried about the job market when I graduate. I will find what I an and work my way up just like everyone else (even those without degrees mind you.) I'm pissy that it cost me the exhorbitant amount of money that it did to acquire 2 bachelor degrees in four years.

Well how much should college cost?

QUOTE (Jessica @ Mar 20 2008, 03:59 PM) *
your minor was probably more because one of your classes required for it needed a pre-req

Naw you were correct. It was 18 hrs. Most CS will get the math minor because we already have to take 15 hrs of math, so one extra class gets us an "easy" minor.

QUOTE (Jessica @ Mar 20 2008, 04:06 PM) *
exactly... I said for engineering it was over 60 hours of BS... that's 68 hours right there. Tech and applied sciences has always been a requirement. You may just not have noticed because you were CS and your classes applied towards that. So i guess 65 hours of BS for you. Arts and sciences need a minimum of 11 hours of foreign language also. Most have to take 12 or more though

This a very wrong assumption. You really need to look at the actual course requirements for each major before you assume that a course is a "BS" course. See the 3rd quote above. Also, while I may have mis-remembered the Tech & AS requirement, I'm not exactly sure how you knew the ins and outs of the requirements of my degree plan from 1998. You were in jr high or something at the time.

whew... a double post quote (note the times, eh, eh? wink.gif)... nice way to finish off the short week tongue.gif
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Mommy
post Mar 20 2008, 04:18 PM
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QUOTE (impala454 @ Mar 20 2008, 04:54 PM) *
That wasn't your statement. Your statement was that college is a waste of money. But yeah you're right, a one time investment of government money at an infanitessimal interest rate that starts out making you at least $25-30k/yr, increasing in return for the next 40 years is a waste of money. rolleyes.gif .


Is catherine sitting at your computer? What ass did you pull this idea out of?


There is not a single degree plan in that catalog where you take 90 hrs of bullshit. Find it for me and show me the degree plan if you think this is true. No, not all of your classes will say:
CS 1234
CS 1235
CS 1236
But just because it doesnt say that doesn't mean that class doesn't pertain to your major, or a well rounded education in general. Most lay people wouldn't think physics has much to do with computer science. Well they'd be wrong. No need to go into why because it's beyond the scope of this thread.


Then why would you assume public schools are "free"?


Unless you're living in a cardboard box, way out in the sticks, or are a senior citizen, you're living under the roof of someone who pays school taxes.


You got me there.


This would really depend on the major. If you have some kind of general Arts & Sciences degree, sure you might have a lot of extra general BS... it's a generalized degree. But just because I have 55 hours of "official" CS courses does not mean that 120 - 55 = 65 hrs of BS. Tons of non-CS courses which had very close ties to my major were taken.


This is very true, and indicative of help needed at the high school & entry level college counselor level. Not to mention the BS that instructors often feed students of how much they should make upon graduation. Perceptions of making lots of money though, do not make college a waste of money.


I didn't claim to know you, all I'm doing is reading what you have to say. If you had started off somewhere making good money you wouldn't have bitched about it two sentences above.


If you don't, why are we having this conversation? Three sentences above you're complaining about your bachelors in psychology not making any money right out of school.


Well how much should college cost?


Naw you were correct. It was 18 hrs. Most CS will get the math minor because we already have to take 15 hrs of math, so one extra class gets us an "easy" minor.


This a very wrong assumption. You really need to look at the actual course requirements for each major before you assume that a course is a "BS" course. See the 3rd quote above. Also, while I may have mis-remembered the Tech & AS requirement, I'm not exactly sure how you knew the ins and outs of the requirements of my degree plan from 1998. You were in jr high or something at the time.

whew... a double post quote (note the times, eh, eh? wink.gif )... nice way to finish off the short week tongue.gif
I cant keep up with your quoting. you win because it takes me to long to break down yours. haha
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