Kerry endorses Obama Options

[Hartmann]

Private health care provides higher quality care and more choices. What needs to be fixed is the government needs to put checks and balances on pharmaceutical companies, health care equipment manufacturers, and hospitals. There's no need for the aforementioned to make a 200% profit off of their drugs and equipment. We need an anti-trust monopoly busting judge to break up the racket.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but, I agree. Well, with the first sentence at least. I'm not sure trading one government control for another is the answer (and a judge breaking up a "monopoly" is govt. control). There do need to be more stringent guidelines but I am not sure direct action against the insurance companies will have the desired impact.

[Inferia]

What about a two tiered universal health care system?

[THECHICKEN]

Can't we just spay and Neuter the poor?

[impala454]

There's no need for the aforementioned to make a 200% profit off of their drugs and equipment. We need an anti-trust monopoly busting judge to break up the racket.

this

Can't we just spay and Neuter the poor?

and this

[woody]

http://consumerist.com/340948/drug-compani...n-research-what

Drug Companies Spend Almost $60 Billion On Marketing, $30 Billion On Research. What?

[Hartmann]

http://consumerist.com/340948/drug-compani...n-research-what

Drug Companies Spend Almost $60 Billion On Marketing, $30 Billion On Research. What?

Exactly my point. Stop them from marketing their drugs to people and a lot the issues would solve themselves.

[Spectatrix]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but, I agree. Well, with the first sentence at least. I'm not sure trading one government control for another is the answer (and a judge breaking up a "monopoly" is govt. control). There do need to be more stringent guidelines but I am not sure direct action against the insurance companies will have the desired impact.

It would help if we actually had free market healthcare.

[pebkac]

I don't know about "a lot of jobs are moving to Canada."

look at it this way.

The way it works right now:
Person A. work for someone who pays for most of if not all of your health insurance.
Person B. you pay outright for your health insurance (typically $300-400/month)
Person C. you have no health insurance, but will still recieve emergency service if you so desire (via taxes)

The communist "universal" healthcare:
Person Z (everyone). you recieve health insurance from the government. you have no choice of doctors, and you pay 5-10% of your income to the government. (for me in particular, I'd pay $270-550/month)

So you're taking something which is vastly paid for by the private sector currently, and now having the government pay for it, but also costing the end consumer much more, as well as lowering the overall quality of the healthcare itself.

You guys just don't seem to look at the big picture. You just think "Universal Healthcare = free! yay!".

Take a gander at this, you "Canada rules!" people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Canada

I still don't see how you're getting that Universal Healthcare is more expensive than Private Healthcare. The link you posted shows a chart at the end shows that Canadians have a higher life expectancy and lower infant mortality with less doctors than us and at less than 2/3 the cost. All the while in Canada and the UK, the governments spend LOWER percentages of their income on healthcare.

At any rate, I don't recall anyone ever saying that Canada's healthcare system was perfect. And I don't see why we have to base our healthcare system on it. For example, one study ranked the UK's system as being the best out of the countries they compared.

[impala454]

I still don't see how you're getting that Universal Healthcare is more expensive than Private Healthcare. The link you posted shows a chart at the end shows that Canadians have a higher life expectancy and lower infant mortality with less doctors than us and at less than 2/3 the cost.

More expensive to the end consumer. What you're talking about is lower costs overall. Huge difference. We spend more per person on healthcare in the US overall because we don't have to wait forever to get things done. As well as having quicker access to more specialized (and therefore more expensive) healthcare.

All the while in Canada and the UK, the governments spend LOWER percentages of their income on healthcare.

Again shown above why we spend more total, look at the % of healthcare costs paid by the government. nearly 70% in Canada, and only 45% in the US.

A couple other fun facts on Canada's healthcare (note, private healthcare clinics are ILLEGAL)

Studies by the Commonwealth Fund found that 57% of Canadians reported waiting 4 weeks or more to see a specialist; 24% of Canadians waited 4 hours or more in the emergency room
..
One in nine trained-in-Canada doctors is practising medicine in the United States...
..
A 2006 article in The New York Times quoted Dr. Brian Day, who opened an illegal private clinic called The Cambie Surgery Center, as saying, "This is a country in which dogs can get a hip replacement in under a week and in which humans can wait two to three years."
..
According to a September 14, 2007 article from CTV News, Canadian Liberal MP Belinda Stronach came to the United States for breast cancer surgery in June of 2007.
..
When Robert Bouressa, the Premier of Quebec needed cancer treatment, he came to the U.S. to get it
..
In 2007 a woman from Calgary who was pregnant with quadruplets was sent to Great Falls, Montana to give birth. An article on this incident states, "There was no room at any other Canadian neonatal intensive care unit." [8] One critic of Canadian health care wrote, "They left a city of a million people, drove 325 miles, and crossed an international border in order to get what can be done in several cities in mighty Montana... They didn't even have to come to largest cities in Montana. Instead, they came to Great Falls, population 56,000."
..
Champion figure skater Audrey Williams needed a hip replacement. Even though she waited two years and suffered in terrible pain, she still did not get the surgery, because the waiting list was so long. In Canada, it is illegal for someone to spend their own money to get health care. So she came to the U.S. and spent her own money to get the surgery.

Universal *cough* communist *cough* Healthcare at its finest.

At any rate, I don't recall anyone ever saying that Canada's healthcare system was perfect. And I don't see why we have to base our healthcare system on it. For example, one study ranked the UK's system as being the best out of the countries they compared.

I'm not sure how the UK's system works, but if you look at theirs, their government pays 85% of all healthcare costs. I might as well just hand over my entire paycheck to the government if the US tried to do that. Then again, the UK, being such a small country, may have a much larger portion of available tax revenue to spend on things like this, where the US would not.

I think some of these systems probably work fine in their respective countries, but just because they work fine for them doesn't mean they'll work here. I like our system just fine.

My old company, I paid $37/check for health insurance, and my new company I pay $0. I have deductibles in the $500-1000 range and max out of pocket in the $2000 range. I have had back surgery as well as other surgeries, and hand picked my doctors each time. Hell, on my back surgery, I had currently been living in Lubbock, and decided it would be easier on me to come home to Houston to go to a really good surgeon, and work from home remotely while recovering. I paid a total of $2000 out of pocket for everything involved. And I'm not some exceptional case. This wasn't with some mega super duper healthcare provider that only huge companies can afford. It was friggin regular old blue cross blue shield. It's not impossible to pay for like you guys think, or out of the range of poor people. I just ran a quick quote off www.bcbstx.com and I can get a plan with a premium as low as $49/month, with $10 generic drugs and a $1,500 deductible, and there are even cheaper plans if you don't mind a higher deductible. people bitch about health insurance costing too much to bother with, but it's more like people just want it and don't want to pay for it. And people like Hillary want them to think Universal Healthcare = free healthcare.

[Testm0nkey]

america spends a lot of money on healthcare because americans have high rates of preventable diseases.

[Hartmann]

america spends a lot of money on healthcare because americans have high rates of preventable diseases.

Exactly, so why is the answer not social and free market changes but instead "universal" healthcare?

[Psykopath]

Well apparently we need to work on eliminating all socialized programs, from the way you people seem to fear them like communism (which they aren't, but whatever Reaganistic fear-flavored kool-aid is poured down your gullet).

Let us start by eliminating socialized medicine. "But that doesn't exist in Amuuuuureca, Billy? That'd be uuuunnnnnnnpatriotic!!"
Veterans Health Administration.
"Oh."




Anyways, back to preparing for the apocalypse!!

[FORSAKENR320]

"Oh."
Anyways, back to preparing for the apocalypse!!

lol, i'm actually cleaning my gun and sharpening my knives right now... haha

[Hartmann]

Let us start by eliminating socialized medicine. "But that doesn't exist in Amuuuuureca, Billy? That'd be uuuunnnnnnnpatriotic!!"
Veterans Health Administration.
"Oh."
Anyways, back to preparing for the apocalypse!!

I am not sure how the VHA equates to socialized medicine as a service was performed for the healthcare.

Secondly, if you are going to use the VHA as a model for shining medical service I suggest you pay a visit to Walter Reed.

[impala454]

Well apparently we need to work on eliminating all socialized programs, from the way you people seem to fear them like communism (which they aren't, but whatever Reaganistic fear-flavored kool-aid is poured down your gullet).

Let us start by eliminating socialized medicine. "But that doesn't exist in Amuuuuureca, Billy? That'd be uuuunnnnnnnpatriotic!!"
Veterans Health Administration.
"Oh."
Anyways, back to preparing for the apocalypse!!

Everything is so black and white with you guys... The subject (whether the thread title says it or not) is healthcare. Don't assume that whatever I or anyone else says about socialized healthcare being a bad idea means that we also think there should be zero government controlled programs. Police, Fire, transportation, etc, all make perfect sense to be government controlled, as they are systems that all have to work together. I couldn't imagine what our highways would look like if we had a capitalist road building system. Or imagine how a capitalized fire fighter system would work. On the other hand something like education, IMHO that could be a toss up as to whether you have a socialized public school system like we have now or do away with it and have purely private schools.