What makes Christians more susceptible to attack? Options

[blaarg]

I have a problem with the "openly teach for the killings of non-believers" statement.

Yes there are sects/mosques that do believe this in some of the most radical muslim countries, but think about the mosques here in the states. You think that a substantial proportion thinks that they should kill non-believers? I would put my money on not.

The fact is just because it is mentioned in the Qur'an, does not mean it is practiced (at least in more industrialized societies). The same way that Christians (other than ridiculous sects) don't follow all the rules/laws outlined in Leviticus.

[Testm0nkey]

as far as i remember in the quran deadly force is only sanctioned if it is provoked. there is no "yeah kill the people who dont agree whenever" written in there.

but i happen to own a copy ill go check!

[Testm0nkey]

regarding christianity and their differences in the true spirit of Jesus

I believe in whatever Book Allah has sent down (this includes bible); and I am commanded to judge justly between you (though they feel the bible is perverted by people rewriting it so its no longer original). Allah is our Lord and your Lord! For us is the responsibility for our deeds, and for you for your deeds. there is no contention between us and you. Allah will bring us together, and to Him is our final goal.

islam as the religion itself doesnt include separatists or fanatics. to be muslim is to be joined with all the muslims in the world. it makes references to ALL humans being of 1 (since created by allah) so there is no "chosen" people.

say ye: we believe
In God, and the revelations
Given to us, and to Abraham,
Isma'il, Issac, Jacob,
And the tribes, and that given
To Moses and Jesus, and that given
To (all) Prophets from their Lord:
We make no difference
Between one and another of them:
And we bow to God in surrender.

women have had the right to own property, divorce in many circumstances, write wills, to inherit since decreed by the prophet, 1,400 years ago. women in the west didnt get these rights until the 19th century.

jihad is mistranslated as "holy war" its true meaning is "striving." the greatest jihad according to muhammad is the "struggle against the lower self" - internal fight between right and wrong, selfishness/selfishlessness, hardness of heart and all embracing love (which is to be strived for).
according to muhammad "the preferred jihad is a truth spoken in the presence of a tyrant" - nonviolence.

in the qur'anic revelations about jihad:

To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged - and verily god is the most powerful for their aid: (they are) those who have been expelled from their homes, in defiance of right (for no cause) except that they say "our lord is god"

this is perverted to EXTREME by extremists

toward the greater jihad is though fasting and prayer to kill one's own ego

fight for the sake of allah those that fight against you, but do not be aggressive. allah does not love the aggressors.

BUT like in the bible there are some contradictions but i think the overall peaceful meaning is clear

Tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter, nor will they cease fighting you until they turn you back from your faith if they can... fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression and there prevail justice and faith in god

a peaceful society is like paradise.

i seriously question where people come up with the belief that killing people is encouraged in the quran. if you believe that you should investigate where you heard that from because thats a pretty dangerous assertion and hypocritical

[jonathan83]

well muslims themselves say it....

[Testm0nkey]

no a certain sect of radicals say it that are a very small minority of muslims

so Christians say homosexuals deserve to be killed?

[Jim]

well muslims themselves say it....

Just like a certain sect of Christians say the same thing...

[dauss]

well that's because you're in the states. if you lived in the middle east, muslims would affect you (being a non-muslim) far more than christians would.

That's right I don't live in the middle east, what's your point?

at least abortion is legal here. do you really think women would have those rights in muslim countries? if they even tried to do that, they'd be stoned or hanged.
furthermore, talking about bombings...2 words, muslim terrorists

I don't know. I don't know much about islam.

if you were homosexual in a muslim country, not only would your life be hell, you may even be executed (iran)

well, I'm sure they'd be doing what christians are doing, pretending to be straight, marry and be miserable. also, you ever hear of something called "hate crime"? Something that people who hate homosexuals(probably christians) do, like beating beat up and killed?

well, if you weren't muslim in muslim country, they may just kill you. they believe they can and should kill non-muslims

I did not know this.

do you think you can buy alcohol in muslim countries? their alcohol laws are severely more restricted

Good for them, maybe there are less alcholics and drunk drivers there.

do you really think muslim countries teach about safe sex? no freakin way.

I don't know what they do over there.

you see, when you compare the two, christianity is like living in amsterdam compared to living in a muslim country.

Not sure how that analogy works, but here you go. So.......fuck christianity and fuck islam.

Oh yeah, fuck lance for not letting the quote button requote what the previous quoted person said and/or fuck opera for not working properly, if it does work.

fuck!

[jonathan83]

Good for them, maybe there are less alcholics and drunk drivers there.

so if that's how you think, then why are you against buying alcohol on sundays? you're agreeing with what you disagreed with in the first place

Not sure how that analogy works

well let's see. amsterdamn is one of the most liberal places in the world.
saying christians are to amsterdam means islam is way limited/close-minded compared to christianity.

[jonathan83]

no a certain sect of radicals say it that are a very small minority of muslims

very small minority? i dont know about you, but i hear a LOT more about muslims calling for the deaths of americans and christians more than i hear about christians killing muslims (actually, i never hear about that). and i'm talking about present times, not crusades.

[jonathan83]

Just like a certain sect of Christians say the same thing...

certain sect? um as far as i've heard, one church, westboro. there may be a couple more than that that i havent heard of, but there are organizations with hundreds of thousands of people (al-qaeda, abu-sayyaf, fatah, hamas, hezbollah, etc. etc.) when you're talking about islam....

[jonathan83]

just thought i'd include this for testmonkey, jim, and others arguing that people associated with christianity kill just as much or more than people associated with islam.

per wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terro...tions#Christian

Christian

* Army of God - An American pro-life terrorist group. [2]
* God's Army - A terrorist group in Myanmar.[2]
* Nagaland Rebels (1947-present) Active in predominantly Christian state in Hindu majority India. Involved in several bombings in 2004. Goal: Independence from India after annexing parts of neighboring Indian states and Burma if it has Christian majority.[2]
* National Liberation Front of Tripura (1989-present) A group that seeks the independence of Tripura from India to create a Christian Tripura.[2]
* Phineas Priesthood An American based Christian Identity movement. [2]
* National Democratic Front of Bodoland, active terrorist in the Indian state of Assam, involved in the murder of Bineshwar Brahma, prominent Hindu Bodo activist.[2]

Islamist

* Abu Sayyaf (1991-present; Islamist separatists; the Philippines)[2]
o Based in the southern islands of Jolo, Basilan, and Mindanao.
o Branched off of the Moro National Liberation Front.
o Allegedly partnered with Jemaah Islamiyah and Al-Qaeda.
* Aden-Abyan Islamic Army (Yemen)[2]
* Adolat - Uzbekistan[citation needed]
* Akromiya - Uzbekistan[citation needed]
* Al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya (Late 1970s-present; Islamists; Egypt)[2]
o Seeks to establish Islamist state in Egypt. Usually targets secular establishments, government buildings, police, the military, minorities, tourists, and “morally offensive” buildings.
* Armed Islamic Group (1992-present; Islamists; Algeria)[2]
o Seeks to establish Islamist state in Algeria. Began operations in 1992 after the Algerian government ignored election results that gave victory to Islamist political parties.
* Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades[2]
* Ansar al-Islam (December 2001-present; Islamists; Iraq)[2]
o In Arabic, "Supporters of Islam."
o Also known as "Partisans of Islam or Helpers of Islam."
* Al-Qaeda (1988-present; Islamists; Afghanistan, Pakistan, and worldwide)[2]
o In Arabic, "the foundation", "the base", or "the database" kept by intelligence services of anti-Soviet Afghani fighters.
o Also known as Qa‘idat al-Jihad, Islamic Army for the Liberation of the Holy Places, World Islamic Front for Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders, Islamic Salvation Foundation, and the Osama bin Laden Network.
o Related: Alneda (former web site), As-Sahab (affiliated public relations organization),
o Cells: Buffalo six, Hamburg cell,
* Asbat al-Ansar (early 1990s-present; Lebanese Sunni Islamists; southern Lebanon)[2]
o In Arabic, "the League of the Followers."
o Acronym for "Harakat al-Muqawama al-Islamiya," or Islamic Resistance Movement.
* Jama'at al-Tawhid wa'al-Jihad/Al-Qaeda in Iraq - Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's Sunni network, operating in Iraq
o on U.S. State Department list of Foreign Terrorist Organizations
* Bunch of Guys (BOGs) or Group of Guys (GOGs), a counter-terrorism term to describe small, anonymous, self-organizing terrorist cells that have little to no contact with national or global leaders or organizations
* Eastern Turkestan Islamic Movement - al-Qaeda linked separatist group in China's Xinjiang Autonomous Region aiming to establish an Islamic state. Banned by China, along with related groups East Turkestan Liberation Organization, World Uighur Youth Congress and East Turkistan Information Center[3][2]
* Egyptian Islamic Jihad - Egypt (active since the late 1970s)[2]
* Fatah al-Islam - Nahr al-Bared Palestinian refugee camp, Lebanon; splittered from Fatah Uprising in 2006.[citation needed]
* Hamas - West Bank, Gaza Strip. Listed as a terrorist organization by Australia, Canada, the European Union, Israel, and the United States[2]
* Harakat ul-Mujahidin (HUM) - Pakistan and Kashmir[2]
* Hizb-an-nusra - Uzbekistan[citation needed]
* Hizb ut-Tahrir - international (legal in Britain and Australia)[citation needed]
* Hezbollah - Lebanon; Listed as a terrorist organization by Australia, Canada, the Netherlands, Israel, and the United States[2]
* Hizbul Mujahideen - Pakistan and Kashmir[2]
* Hofstad Network - Netherlands[citation needed]
* Islamic Front for the Liberation of Bahrain - Defunct[citation needed]
* Islamic Movement of Central Asia - Central Asia (affiliated with Al Qaeda)[citation needed]
o Islamic Movement of Tajikistan - Tajikistan[citation needed]
o Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan - Uzbekistan[2]
* Jaish-e-Mohammed - Pakistan[2]
* Jaish Ansar al-Sunna - Iraq[4]
* Jama'at al-Jihad al-Islami[citation needed]
* Jemaah Islamiyah - Southeast Asia[2]
* Jihad Rite - Australia (linked with Al Qaeda. Founded in 2001)[citation needed]
* Jundallah - Iran and Pakistan (affiliated with the USA and Al-Qaeda)[2]
* Lashkar-e-Jhangvi - Pakistan[2]
* Lashkar-e-Toiba - Pakistan[2]
* Maktab al-Khadamat - Afghanistan - Defunct
* Moroccan Islamic Combatant Group - Morocco and Spain[2]
* Moro Islamic Liberation Front - (Islamic separatists; the Philippines)[2]
* Palestinian Islamic Jihad - Israel, West Bank, Gaza Strip[2]
* People Against Gangsterism and Drugs - South Africa[2]
* Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat - Algeria
* Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan - Pakistan[2]
* Students Islamic Movement of India - India[2]
* Takfir wal-Hijra - Egypt/Sudan/Algeria[2]
* Tehreek-e-Nafaz-e-Shariat-e-Mohammadi - Pakistan
* Turkish Hezbollah - Kurdish organization operating in Turkey[2]
* Turkish Islamic Jihad - Turkey[2]

This post has been edited by jonathan83: Oct 16 2007, 06:59 PM

[Jim]

Let's look at Nazi's and Aryan Brotherhood and other White supremacy groups. They're acting in the name of God and Jesus.

I'm sorry, Jonathan, but Muslims don't have a monopoly on the terrorist bit.

[Testm0nkey]

when did i say Christians kill more than any other?

of course you hear a lot about muslims saying they are out to kill christians. because thats inflammatory and the media display the FEW muslims that are doing that to help the media's motives. that doesnt mean the majority of muslims feel that way and no where does that mean thats whats taught in the quran

a few thousand muslims isnt a lot. it is the 2nd largest religion in the world. and in the radical sects there are various levels of intolerance. some people may just be smushed together with it but not believe in it at all. just like in christianity

[jonathan83]

Let's look at Nazi's and Aryan Brotherhood and other White supremacy groups. They're acting in the name of God and Jesus.

I'm sorry, Jonathan, but Muslims don't have a monopoly on the terrorist bit.

i dont recall the nazi's killing in the name of jesus. just because hitler was "christian" doesnt meant he was killing in jesus' name. anyway, i said i wasn't talking about the past anyway, just the present. i dont hear about christians calling for the deaths of muslims.

[jonathan83]

of course you hear a lot about muslims saying they are out to kill christians. because thats inflammatory and the media display the FEW muslims that are doing that to help the media's motives. that doesnt mean the majority of muslims feel that way and no where does that mean thats whats taught in the quran

well, i dont know. i'm not saying the majority of muslims feel that way (especially those who grew up in western countries), and i know there are muslims who are against killing, but i disagree when you say FEW muslims are doing that. i just listed a long, long list of muslim terrorists organizations that do just that, and that's a lot of people. furthermore, BOTH sides of the media (left and right) are the ones showing this stuff and reporting it, so i think there are quite a few of these guys out there. i dont know if anyone can say if they're in the minority or not.

and actually i think i've heard people talk about how the koran does say it's ok to kill infidels/non-christians. i'll try to look it up.