War in Iraq, updates/stories Options

[Hartmann]

Hence my reference to a "Republic" in another post. That conversation took a turn towards Star Wars.

[impala454]

Post the definition you're claiming, please.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/democracy

1. government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.
2. a state having such a form of government: The United States and Canada are democracies.
3. a state of society characterized by formal equality of rights and privileges.
4. political or social equality; democratic spirit.
5. the common people of a community as distinguished from any privileged class; the common people with respect to their political power.

this wikipedia article seems to explain the actual word usage reasonably:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy#.22..._.22Republic.22

In 18th century historical usages, especially when considering the works of the Founding Fathers of the United States, the word "democracy" was associated with radical egalitarianism and was often defined to mean what we today call direct democracy. In the same historical context, the word "republic" was used to refer to what we now call representative democracy.

I guess call it whatever you want, but I think to say we're not a democracy is incorrect. We definitely practice democracy by definition.

[theIncredibleEdi...]

Hence my reference to a "Republic" in another post. That conversation took a turn towards Star Wars.

**Takes a bow**

[chook]

**Takes a bow**

pew pew lasers!

[pebkac]

What's funny about that is, if someone on here made a statement such as yours on another topic they'd probably be berated or some such.

I find it interesting that a normally "left" source would present such material as it is so detrimental to their precious anti-war movement. If I could find any reputable source that presented an opposing viewpoint, I'd be willing to read it and give it credence.

I also find it interesting that Petraeus has been fairly straightforward on the surge succeeding but that there are still issues and that the Iraqis must work for democracy for themselves.

I think Cathryn was talking more about the commercials that you said only presented half of the story.

At any rate, I don't think the information is detrimental to the idea that the war was unjustified. That someone says they were told by Saddam that he wanted to restart his weapons program at some point in the future is far from being concrete proof that he would. Not only is it hearsay, there's a pretty good chance that it was just Saddam rattling sabers.

This post has been edited by pebkac: Feb 4 2008, 10:39 AM

[Hartmann]

I think Cathryn was talking more about the commercials that you said only presented half of the story.

At any rate, I don't think the information is detrimental to the idea that the war was unjustified. That someone says they were told by Saddam that he wanted to restart his weapons program at some point in the future is far from being concrete proof that he would. Not only is it hearsay, there's a pretty good chance that it was just Saddam rattling sabers.

Which is the exact point the guy makes. The interrogator himself didn't really believe Saddam was going to make WMDs, he felt that Saddam was just trying to be a power player in the area and used the WMD argument to keep that power. I dunno, I take the expert interrogator's opinion fairly seriously. He's the expert.

It's clear from the advertisements for this interview that the media hoped to generate more sentiments of "anti-war". The ads showed only the part of the interview that said "Saddam did not have WMD", yet cut out the part about him wanting to produce more (even if he was lying), and even more importantly the part about Saddam's posturing.

So who's intelligence, media, etc. are we supposed to listen to? Do we just do our own research completely? How do you know your research is correct? At some point you have to listen to someone, and then listen to someone else, and make a decision. Sitting around hypothesizing about things we have no real understanding of (or firsthand knowledge of) does us no good.

[pebkac]

Sitting around hypothesizing about things we have no real understanding of (or firsthand knowledge of) does us no good.

Yes it does. It means NPR gets to stay open.

[Hartmann]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoA02PmueH4

Wonder what it will look like if we pull out of Iraq...

[impala454]

Funny how that shit tends to work. That video of the choppers leaving saigon (sp?) was pretty crazy too. We're hated for being there and trying to help protect the people, but when we leave we're begged to stay or people swarm our planes & choppers trying to leave with us.

[Mommy]

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2008/0...re.for.wife.cnn

wow... this made me cry.
Even weirder that it's being reported from BAMC where my husband works. They must get a lot of injured soldiers there because every time I go up there, there are young guys around my age with missing limbs. Very sad.

[Mommy]

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2008/0....out.class.wptv

This is sad too.... before any of you anti-war mongers comment though, listen to the last few words of the video.

[impala454]

saw my cousin today who is home for a couple weeks break from over there working for a PMC. He gave an interesting perspective on how things are going over there. He said overall violence is way down, but that kill ratio is up on violence that does occur. he said something like a year or two ago, they'd have 150 "incidents" of violence in baghdad every day, with maybe 6-7 dead total. Now he said they might see only 10 incidents, but 8-9 dead. He said the large scale resistence is all but defeated, but that those left are getting smarter, and getting trained and supplied directly by Irani special forces & military. He said they typically limit missions (he escorts allied diplomats and high ranking military to various meetings and such) to an hour or two because word spreads fast once they're on the move that high ranking americans are out and about. he said he actually has lots of locals as informants who will call him once word has spread. pretty interesting to hear about.

funny thing, the guy has an insane tan now... he said his missions usually only last 2-4 hrs a day tops, and that him and his guys spend the rest of the time out by the giant pools at saddam's palace resort. he said there's 3 pools, one is olympic sized, other is beach entry, and on a busy day there will be 100-200 people out there swimming, bbqing, working out, etc. i'll try and get a few pics from him when he heads back.

[RitalinJunkie]

wow....the old adam west batman got something right


Batman: "Nobody wants war."
Robin: "Gee, Batman. Belgravia's such a small country. We'd beat them in a few hours."
Batman: "Yes, and then we'd have to support them for years."



hmmm

[chook]

If Obama fails, then vote Adam West!

[Mommy]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=0a3_1233765334

I LOVE THIS VIDEO.