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> Civil War In Iraq
Hartmann
post Sep 27 2006, 01:58 PM
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Personally, I am all for this. Let's let the sectarian violence escalate, pull our boys out, let the Iraqis duke it out, and whoever comes out on top, they proved themselves and we just leave it alone.

A civil war does not directly affect this country. It effects the countries in the Middle East and should give them a swift kick in the rear to take part in their surroundings and help.


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pebkac
post Sep 27 2006, 02:05 PM
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QUOTE (Hartmann @ Sep 27 2006, 02:58 PM)
Personally, I am all for this. Let's let the sectarian violence escalate, pull our boys out, let the Iraqis duke it out, and whoever comes out on top, they proved themselves and we just leave it alone.

A civil war does not directly affect this country. It effects the countries in the Middle East and should give them a swift kick in the rear to take part in their surroundings and help.

Riiiiiiiiiiggghhhht.

We invade a country and don't stay behind to help clean up the mess. Besides that, a civil war could hurt us, especially if fundamentalist Muslims take over.


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Psykopath
post Sep 27 2006, 02:09 PM
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QUOTE (Hartmann @ Sep 27 2006, 02:58 PM)
Personally, I am all for this. Let's let the sectarian violence escalate, pull our boys out, let the Iraqis duke it out, and whoever comes out on top, they proved themselves and we just leave it alone.

A civil war does not directly affect this country. It effects the countries in the Middle East and should give them a swift kick in the rear to take part in their surroundings and help.

So.....

We just pull out of the country without fufilling our objectives/promises, eh?

So why the fuck did we invade them again? What purpose would our invasion had served if we went this route?


huh.gif


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Hartmann
post Sep 27 2006, 02:27 PM
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I don't remember ever telling the Iraqi's "We are going to end violence in your country".

I think our number one objective was (no matter how clouded by WMD) to get Saddam out of power. The guy was a time bomb.

I guess my reasoning for posting this was that I am tired of hearing "the country is teetering on the brink of civil war". Well, then it's been teetering pretty well for a couple of years now.


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Psykopath
post Sep 27 2006, 02:30 PM
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Isn't that a bit fucked up to let such a country in such a volitale region just fall into a civil war?
I mean, wouldn't that make it even more of a haven for terrorists than it is now?

Kind of defeats the purpose/defies any and all logical reasoning...but then again, the right wing does that quite often. wink.gif


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Hartmann
post Sep 27 2006, 02:40 PM
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QUOTE (Psykopath @ Sep 27 2006, 02:30 PM)
Isn't that a bit fucked up to let such a country in such a volitale region just fall into a civil war?
I mean, wouldn't that make it even more of a haven for terrorists than it is now?

Kind of defeats the purpose/defies any and all logical reasoning...but then again, the right wing does that quite often. wink.gif

See you assume I am right wing, when in fact I lean to the left on a lot of issues. But assumptions are fairly normal on this board.

I stand behind the war in Iraq mostly because my friends are there.

I think that the problem is that people keep saying it is going to fall into civil war just to keep their ratings up when in fact there is no civil war anywhere on the horizon. To me, this war is slowly becoming forgotten, so slowly that no one even notices.


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Psykopath
post Sep 27 2006, 02:44 PM
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QUOTE (Hartmann @ Sep 27 2006, 03:40 PM)
See you assume I am right wing, when in fact I lean to the left on a lot of issues. But assumptions are fairly normal on this board.

I stand behind the war in Iraq mostly because my friends are there.

I think that the problem is that people keep saying it is going to fall into civil war just to keep their ratings up when in fact there is no civil war anywhere on the horizon. To me, this war is slowly becoming forgotten, so slowly that no one even notices.

not necessarily calling you right wing. I actually hear the "let 'em have a civil war" arguement quite frequently on campus from obvious right-wingers, hence why I tagged that arguement to that side of the political spectrum.


I agree with you somewhat on that last point though. People are semi-forgetting/losing interest in this war.


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Hartmann
post Sep 27 2006, 02:55 PM
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It's what we get for living in the ADD nation.


Ultimately I would like to see a better Iraq, if not just for them, but for the entire region. I think that after all this over the American presence in the Middle East should be reduced to only necessary posts. Not too give the Muslim world the idea that we've been defeated, but instead to show that we are not trying to be in their land.


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The Fanatic
post Sep 27 2006, 02:56 PM
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I actually agree with you. The only way to achieve a legitimate regime is for the Iraqis to choose that regime through some sort of inner decision making process. Whether that be civil war or what have you, it should be up to the Iraqi people not the american imperial machine.


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Dogmeat
post Sep 27 2006, 02:59 PM
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QUOTE (Hartmann @ Sep 27 2006, 02:58 PM)
Personally, I am all for this. Let's let the sectarian violence escalate, pull our boys out, let the Iraqis duke it out, and whoever comes out on top, they proved themselves and we just leave it alone.

A civil war does not directly affect this country. It effects the countries in the Middle East and should give them a swift kick in the rear to take part in their surroundings and help.

Yes, a civil war directly effects this country.

We're pumping millions of barrels of Iraqi crude out of the ground, and China wants oil.

Do you think the terrorists are above allowing China to capitalize on US withdrawl and they take over?

Fuck no.

Withdrawing from Iraq right now would fuck this country over so bad it's not even funny.


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Hartmann
post Sep 27 2006, 03:00 PM
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I don't think we have to look any further than this country to see what a civil war can do. Yes, people will die, people will be hurt, but the country came out stronger than what it was before the war.

I don't necessarily think a civil war in Iraq will allow the terrorism to increase. I think the Shiites will be happy just carrying out their coward acts.


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Hartmann
post Sep 27 2006, 03:02 PM
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QUOTE (Dogmeat @ Sep 27 2006, 02:59 PM)
Yes, a civil war directly effects this country.

We're pumping millions of barrels of Iraqi crude out of the ground, and China wants oil.

Do you think the terrorists are above allowing China to capitalize on US withdrawl and they take over?

Fuck no.

Withdrawing from Iraq right now would fuck this country over so bad it's not even funny.

Screw oil. At this exact moment in time, very little oil is being pumped out of Iraqi fields and going to U.S. consumers. The simple fact that Iraq isn't even pumping at 50% capacity on a day to day basis is enough proof that they are not playing a big part in our oil economy.

To care that much about oil in such a selfish a way is arrogant and does nothing to improve the situation.


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The Fanatic
post Sep 27 2006, 03:05 PM
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It's not like the Iraqis will not sell their oil after we leave. The Neo con's just want to control the supply of oil. It has nothing to do with lowering the price for US consumers, in fact it is quite contrary to that.


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A psychotic world we live in. The madmen are in power. How long have we known this? Faced this? And--how many of us do know it? Perhaps if you know you are insane then you are not insane. Or you are becoming sane, finally. Waking up. I suppose only a few are aware of all this. Isolated persons here and there. But the broad masses... what do they think? All these hundreds of thousands in this city, here. Do they imagine that they live in a sane world? Or do they guess, glimpse, the truth...?

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Testm0nkey
post Sep 27 2006, 03:21 PM
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we are getting more of our oil from our hemisphere but even though thats true cutting off the middle eastern supply would still have a huge affects on america. simply because we use so damn much, more than any other country in the world, that a drop of 20-30% has a lot of repercussions


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Hartmann
post Sep 27 2006, 03:29 PM
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QUOTE (Testm0nkey @ Sep 27 2006, 03:21 PM)
we are getting more of our oil from our hemisphere but even though thats true cutting off the middle eastern supply would still have a huge affects on america. simply because we use so damn much, more than any other country in the world, that a drop of 20-30% has a lot of repercussions

Key terms highlighted.

Cutting off all Middle East oil would have a huge impact but Iraq, come on. By cutting out Iraq's current production (of which very little actually comes to this country) we would probably cut 2-3%.

I think the latest report from Iraq stated that something like 400,000 b/d were being produced country wide.

Now, you get rid of Saudi Arabia, the UAE, and Kuwait and we have a problem on our hands. But honestly, what Americans need to do is stop buying stupid crap like XBox 360 games (one is a tank of gas) and start saving their money instead of living in debt.


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