Kerry endorses Obama Options

[theIncredibleEdi...]

narp. you only get lonely if you are alone.

i plan on being the personal savior of a fistful of people. maybe get some good breeding stock, attractive females completely dependant on me for survival, and extremely grateful and plan on creating my own kooku westboro baptist style community.

Look at you, all planned out

[pebkac]

it comes out of your paycheck, whether you like it or not.

You have to pay for national defense if you like it or not...

I don't see the whole "It'll be too expensive" argument. Universal healthcare would probably be the best thing possible for our economy. A lot of jobs are moving to Canada now. And paying their employees MORE. Why? Because healthcare costs both employers and employees less.

[Hartmann]

Psykopath, I'll get back to your original response to my post in a bit (gotta read through it).

I work with four Canadians, all from different parts of Canada. Only one liked the healthcare system. The taxes and the poor treatment (waiting for hours for emergency rooms) lead them to the U.S.

In fact, the one guy's wife was a nurse in Canada and saw a bunch of problems, including having to turn people away instead of giving them the dire surgery they need. The reason? Not enough room.

Another had a friend who needed heart surgery, no one in Canada would do the surgery due to the cost that the hospital would incur. They came to the states and paid out of pocket for the surgery.

The problem is that neither the healthcare system now, nor the socialized medicine route, are perfect. I just feel that our system now is much better than any social medicine plan we could ever come up with.

And yes, young males (and now females) are the ones not wanting to enroll in insurance plans. They see it as a cost that doesn't affect them and they don't want to pay for it. Why would a tax that they have to pay for be a good idea?

The point about us already paying for social service does little for the case. Fire and Police departments usually aren't the Nirvana effective monetary spending and social gain. Meaning, a lot of money goes into them for only some social well-being. A lot of people feel that the need for these services is imminent, not so with medical care.

I don't think it's too expensive and I don't necessarily see it as a good thing for the economy. We'd tax more Americans more money, which could have negative affects, especially in the short term.

[Testm0nkey]

i had an on loan canadian professor whos family were rural and poor. her father had massive heart surgery and a replacement and they practically didnt pay anything for it. which is a good thing because she said he would have just died. she also got a virtually free education and is now a doctor.

i still really dont see any flaws

[Hartmann]

i had an on loan canadian professor whos family were rural and poor. her father had massive heart surgery and a replacement and they practically didnt pay anything for it. which is a good thing because she said he would have just died. she also got a virtually free education and is now a doctor.

i still really dont see any flaws

So the moral of the story is, for some people it's great and for some people it's horrible (or it's a mix of both). The question is, how are you going to feel when it's you (or your family) and the universal care doesn't pan out to be everything you thought it was? Will you still praise it as being a solution?

Also, for your Canadian professor's family, I believe the fact that they were rural put them in a different "bucket" for healthcare. I will ask the one coworker who lived rurally on Monday if that's the case. See, with socialism, everyone is equal, some are just more equal than others

[Testm0nkey]

that was my point. for every negative story there will be a positive one.

well i wont know in that scenario for sure until it happens, wont i? but from my perspective now and looking at other countries i think its the better solution.

i know canadians really love their indians and they get special treatment but she was about as white as a hitler love child. and equality = equal opportunity (imo). some do get more in that case

[Hartmann]

i know canadians really love their indians and they get special treatment but she was about as white as a hitler love child. and equality = equal opportunity (imo). some do get more in that case

Equality is not equal opportunity, at least in the world we live in. Equality is summed up by saying that everyone is equal and everyone deserves the same benefits, which is far from the truth. I do agree that equal opportunity is important but I don't think concessions should be made at the expense of some to benefit the few.

Then comes the issue of what really is equal opportunity. Can a rich person claim that their opportunities were different because they grew up rich?

I really should have majored in whatever subject all of this is covered in... It's interesting.

[chook]

I don't know if someone missed it during whatever argument you guys are having

I don't want someone who smokes cigarettes as president

Hitler didn't smoke but Churchill did!

I talked to my Canadian relatives, they have two health care systems. The free one for things like medicine and broken bones. The private one for major shit!

[Psykopath]

narp. you only get lonely if you are alone.

i plan on being the personal savior of a fistful of people. maybe get some good breeding stock, attractive females completely dependant on me for survival, and extremely grateful and plan on creating my own kooku westboro baptist style community.

I will form a separate sect.

Full of sneaky, ninja death training.

[THECHICKEN]

I will form a separate sect.

Full of sneaky, ninja death training.

I claim the pirate style raiding (nomadic) community!

[FORSAKENR320]

my viking community will be best suited. trained from birth to rape and pillage... yea, thats the key

[chook]

fuck, i'll just run the post apocalyptic porn sites.

[Psykopath]

my viking community will be best suited. trained from birth to rape and pillage... yea, thats the key

But you won't hear us coming.


SNEAK ATTACK

[impala454]

You have to pay for national defense if you like it or not...

I don't see the whole "It'll be too expensive" argument. Universal healthcare would probably be the best thing possible for our economy. A lot of jobs are moving to Canada now. And paying their employees MORE. Why? Because healthcare costs both employers and employees less.

I don't know about "a lot of jobs are moving to Canada."

look at it this way.

The way it works right now:
Person A. work for someone who pays for most of if not all of your health insurance.
Person B. you pay outright for your health insurance (typically $300-400/month)
Person C. you have no health insurance, but will still recieve emergency service if you so desire (via taxes)

The communist "universal" healthcare:
Person Z (everyone). you recieve health insurance from the government. you have no choice of doctors, and you pay 5-10% of your income to the government. (for me in particular, I'd pay $270-550/month)

So you're taking something which is vastly paid for by the private sector currently, and now having the government pay for it, but also costing the end consumer much more, as well as lowering the overall quality of the healthcare itself.

You guys just don't seem to look at the big picture. You just think "Universal Healthcare = free! yay!".

Take a gander at this, you "Canada rules!" people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Canada

[Seeker]

I agree with Impala weirdly enough. The solution to America's health care problem is NOT socialized government-run Canadian-style health care.

Private health care provides higher quality care and more choices. What needs to be fixed is the government needs to put checks and balances on pharmaceutical companies, health care equipment manufacturers, and hospitals. There's no need for the aforementioned to make a 200% profit off of their drugs and equipment. We need an anti-trust monopoly busting judge to break up the racket. We also need to get the FDA to quit approving dangerous patented drugs and start promoting natural herbal alternatives that work just as well if not better (more effective and safe)... but since natural herbs can't be patented and sold at profit it'll never happen. It'll also never happen because the powers-that-be don't want everyone to be healthy and live to 120 due to over-population. A broken health-care system works as population control.

Can't have more healthy rats than resources.