Bush's bailing out of the irresponsible Options

[Hartmann]

Haha "attack". The reason I pointed it out was clear. You seemed to think your experience was the norm when it obviously is not. First time home buyers have to buy a house eventually. Sometimes the best way to learn is by doing. It doesn't make it any easier when there are lenders out there handing out loans that are fiscally irresponsible just to reel people in.

Sorry if you took it so personally. I just take a dim view of those who talk about how much they're helping someone out when they're raking in huge profits at the same time. Same goes for anyone that takes tax writeoffs for donations.

The fact that you say my dad and I are getting rich is what "I took personally", well, considering that's completely false. I am not extremely wealthy or even wealthy.

Of course the best way to learn is to do it, but does that mean they deserve to get a free pass when they screw up?

You don't like people who give donations and gets the tax writeoff? Will you then be ok with the lenders getting tax writeoffs when this freeze affects their bottom lines and the government doesn't want them to go under?

If I give a thousand dollars to a charity, I don't want that being counted as income I could have spent, because I could have spent it if I wanted to.

[Testm0nkey]

if you have the capital to invest in real estate for purposes like that, thats one of the most amazing things you can do to help people. getting a bit of a tax write off, or making a bit of a profit is nowhere near something one should feel bad about. the people doing good things have got to survive to and if that just helps them put some more money away to do it again then so be it!

like people who donate money to get a bit of their taxes cut - hey the are still donating to charities. the charity will appreciate the funding regardless of the reasons behind it (except for extreme cases like blood money or RANSOM)

i seriously cant wait to work in houston!

[impala454]

The fact that you say my dad and I are getting rich is what "I took personally", well, considering that's completely false. I am not extremely wealthy or even wealthy.

The terms rich/wealthy are all about point of view bud. To quote Chris Rock, "People think Shaq is wealthy, Shaq aint wealthy, Shaq's rich. The guy that signs Shaq's paycheck is wealthy."

Of course the best way to learn is to do it, but does that mean they deserve to get a free pass when they screw up?

How in the hell is this plan a "free pass" for the consumer? Preventing hardship due to ballooning interest rates is suddenly a "free pass"? Let me go cry a river for the lenders who will only make 7% interest off of these people's home loans.

You don't like people who give donations and gets the tax writeoff? Will you then be ok with the lenders getting tax writeoffs when this freeze affects their bottom lines and the government doesn't want them to go under?

WTF do these two things have to do with each other? I didn't say I have a problem with tax writeoffs in general (i.e. tax writeoff for a business purchasing a car). What I have a problem with is those who go donate $5,000 to some charity and then want something in return (a tax writeoff). All they're doing is taking money from the government to make their donation. If you truly want to make a donation you don't ask for shit in return *cough* rawls college of business *cough*.

If I give a thousand dollars to a charity, I don't want that being counted as income I could have spent, because I could have spent it if I wanted to.

This is exactly what I'm talkin about.

[Hartmann]

I don't understand your logic. I don't ask for a tax write off. I do give to charities (not a ton of money) but the first thing I ask is not "so where do I get the tax write off form?". I do agree with you that people shouldn't expect recognition but I disagree that there shouldn't be some (slight) incentive for donating to charities (comparing donating to a college and to a charity are two different things).

Also, my overall wealth is not that much. I don't live in a fancy house, I don't drive a fancy car (in fact I drove a junker up until last year), I don't own a lot of stuff, etc.

You don't have a problem with businesses buying a car and putting a large or small sticker on it to make it a tax write off? Wow. I knew a company that did this just for the write off.

Last time I checked I am required to list all tax exemptions (even though according to tax law, taxes are voluntary). So you're saying I should not list any donations to charities?

What you are arguing is that it's the reasoning behind the donations, etc. How do you know my reasoning?

[Hartmann]

How in the hell is this plan a "free pass" for the consumer? Preventing hardship due to ballooning interest rates is suddenly a "free pass"? Let me go cry a river for the lenders who will only make 7% interest off of these people's home loans.

Well, for one, they should have known the terms. Two, the ballooning interest rates are due in part to the "boom" in housing. Like DaveFireDancer said, there is more to it than simply increasing rates.

[impala454]

I don't understand your logic. I don't ask for a tax write off. I do give to charities (not a ton of money) but the first thing I ask is not "so where do I get the tax write off form?". I do agree with you that people shouldn't expect recognition but I disagree that there shouldn't be some (slight) incentive for donating to charities (comparing donating to a college and to a charity are two different things).

Also, my overall wealth is not that much. I don't live in a fancy house, I don't drive a fancy car (in fact I drove a junker up until last year), I don't own a lot of stuff, etc.

You don't have a problem with businesses buying a car and putting a large or small sticker on it to make it a tax write off? Wow. I knew a company that did this just for the write off.

Last time I checked I am required to list all tax exemptions (even though according to tax law, taxes are voluntary). So you're saying I should not list any donations to charities?

What you are arguing is that it's the reasoning behind the donations, etc. How do you know my reasoning?

It's not an argument bud. It's just my opinion. If you donate to charities that's great.

[impala454]

Well, for one, they should have known the terms. Two, the ballooning interest rates are due in part to the "boom" in housing. Like DaveFireDancer said, there is more to it than simply increasing rates.

So what?!? They should have known the terms. Who is being hurt by this plan to help out? Who does it cost? All this thing means is the assholes who gave the loans in the first place aren't going to make as much money. Big whoop. And no, the housing boom doesn't have jack shit to do with the rates rising. Like I have now said three times, ARM loan terms are based on an index.

AN INDEX WHICH IS SET AND ADJUSTED BY THE LENDER

[Hartmann]

So what?!? They should have known the terms. Who is being hurt by this plan to help out? Who does it cost? All this thing means is the assholes who gave the loans in the first place aren't going to make as much money. Big whoop. And no, the housing boom doesn't have jack shit to do with the rates rising. Like I have now said three times, ARM loan terms are based on an index.

AN INDEX WHICH IS SET AND ADJUSTED BY THE LENDER

It will cost the entire economy.

Wow, by your logic if I did make tons of money buying and selling houses it shouldn't matter because "no one is being hurt" and "it doesn't cost anyone".

I suggest reading this: http://www.federalreserve.gov/pubs/arms/ar...nglish.htm#drop

Even if interest rates go down or stay the same, payments may still increase.

Actually, read the whole thing: http://www.federalreserve.gov/pubs/arms/arms_english.htm

I don't see anywhere in there where the rate can arbitrarily just go up.

[Spectatrix]

AN INDEX WHICH IS SET AND ADJUSTED BY THE LENDER

btw impala if a person cant figure out how much they can afford, they should continue renting or living with their mother....also, how is..say LIBOR controlled by the lender? or WSJ prime? I know what your saying about some bank's having their "own" prime, but those are usually set to something as well and aren't changed on a whim....

This post has been edited by Spectatrix: Dec 10 2007, 03:42 PM

[impala454]

Uh, and who adjusts those f'n indexes??? Geezus.

[Spectatrix]

They're based on broad surveys of banks in general and thus are less prone to arbitrary fluctuation than anything maintained by an individual lender. Hell, LIBOR, which I understand is the basis for a lot of ARMs, isn't even based on banks in our own country.

The London Interbank Offered Rate (or LIBOR) is a daily reference rate based on the interest rates at which banks offer to lend unsecured funds to other banks in the London wholesale money market (or interbank market). LIBOR will be slightly higher than the London Interbank Bid Rate (LIBID), the rate at which banks are prepared to accept deposits.

The Wall Street Journal Prime Rate (WSJ Prime Rate) is defined by The Wall Street Journal (WSJ) as "The base rate on corporate loans posted by at least 75% of the nation's 30 largest banks." It is not the 'best' rate offered by banks. It should not be confused with the federal funds rate set by the Federal Reserve, though these two rates often move in tandem. The current rate is 7.50% (as of 2007-10-31).

[impala454]

Right, they're rates set by BANKS.

How about lets form a new speed limit commitee. We'll call it some acronym. Then we'll appoint race car drivers as the members.

[johnthedrunk]

i really wanted to capitalize on the suckers whose houses are getting auctioned off and swoop up all of their houses and then 5 or 10 years later sell it back to them at 10 times the cost.

[Spectatrix]

Right, they're rates set by BANKS.

Yes, because banks in the UK have a stake in margins on ARMs in the US...

Do you even think about the stuff you type?

Scratch that. I give up. You won't listen to somebody who works in the banking industry (Amber), you won't listen to someone who has bought and sold many more homes than you (Hartmann). Who am I to think you'll listen to me, who's done neither?

[Mommy]

Christine: 1
Impala: well, let's face it... -4,563