Mike Huckabee, Are you KIDDING me?! Options

[jonathan83]

btw blaarg, read about this: http://www.amazon.com/Language-God-Scienti...4459&sr=8-1

a book about Francis Collins...arguably one of if not the best scientist in the world (head of the human genome project). he was an atheist and turned christian. this whole book is about how he became a christian THROUGH learning how it actually makes sense with science. very interesting, even if you're not a christian.

that wasn't directed at you

alright, my bad.

[THECHICKEN]

7 days.... in god days... duh

Do you know how long a god day is? Uber long. Why do you think its taking so long to come back and get us. He's all like "hey i'll brb" and we are all "orly", he's like "ya rly, here is my son, he'll vouch". Then he's at the bar for a couple hours and is all like "oh shit i left the cake in the oven... damn its gunna be burnt"

then he comes back

[Billy]

you even saying that you know for sure earth is millions of years old is astonishing...since you're not a scientist or have any experience in the matter.

i've read arguments on both sides, and the other side does have a lot of interesting things to say (and from leading scientists as well). i remember them saying a lot about how carbon-dating uses a fixed variable that's wayyy off, and basically say it's worthless. i don't know about it, but it's just stuff i've read by researching myself a little bit.

i thought liberals were supposed to be open-minded? that's why i like staying in the middle.

Unfortunately for your argument, carbon dating is only one of many radio active decay methods used to date ancient material. Carbon, however, was discovered to be inaccurate because of all the excess carbon released into the atmosphere. Calibrating can get around this problem:

A raw BP date cannot be used directly as a calendar date, because the level of atmospheric 14C has not been strictly constant during the span of time that can be radiocarbon dated. The level is affected by variations in the cosmic ray intensity which is affected by variations in the earth's magnetosphere caused by solar storms. In addition there are substantial reservoirs of carbon in organic matter, the ocean, ocean sediments (see methane hydrate), and sedimentary rocks. Changing climate can sometimes disrupt the carbon flow between these reservoirs and the atmosphere. The level has also been affected by human activities—it was almost doubled for a short period due to atomic bomb tests in the 1950s and 1960s and has been reduced by the release of large amounts of CO2 from ancient organic sources where 14C is not present—the fossil fuels used in industry and transportation, known as the Suess effect.

wikipedia.

[Hartmann]

Huckabee did a decent job as governor (though I think we should wait 10 more ears before electing anyone from Arkansas again).

Everyone has something that "drives" their decisions, why does it matter if it's religion? Some people use their views of morality to drive their decisions, others use humanism, etc. etc.

I am just not understanding how someone can say that one person's drivers are worse than others. Why? Because your experience with religion has been bad? I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'm sorry you were so turned off by Christianity but it doesn't mean it's wrong, it is just wrong for you.

As far as carbon dating, when I worked at Shell we did carbon dating on drill slugs to make inferences on age. We never took the value as being exact or even extremely close for that matter. The disparity in results was just too great. We would take two drill slugs from wells that were close to each other and get completely different ages, something that shouldn't have happened considering both slugs contained the same makeup.

There are other methods for dating rocks but they are extremely expensive, not much more accurate, and used rarely.

[Testm0nkey]

i think the mix of religion and politics is harmful. like its been said it creates a bias and the fear that the leader of the state or country will be looking to signs from god about course of action to take - exaggeration, but Bush has said that he talks with god before and he looks to his spiritual advisors for guidance. its not that i hate Christianity but the way to run a country should not be based off of one person's form of faith.
and im tired of politicians having to be openly protestant to be even taken seriously. we arent living in the middle east people God shouldnt be the end all be all

[Psykopath]

7 days.... in god days... duh

Do you know how long a god day is? Uber long. Why do you think its taking so long to come back and get us. He's all like "hey i'll brb" and we are all "orly", he's like "ya rly, here is my son, he'll vouch". Then he's at the bar for a couple hours and is all like "oh shit i left the cake in the oven... damn its gunna be burnt"

then he comes back

lollin

[blaarg]

you arent even listening. i never said i believed the 7 days were literal.
you were still wrong

I'm still looking into the mentioned "scientists" and I've been searching for journal articles that they have published which have 1) validated their claim, 2) are published in a reputable scientific journal, 3) not filled with speculations which have been debunked or personal statements of their "faith in the young age of the world."
I've been unable to find any such articles which would fit the above criteria...

Don't you think that if there was any potential validity to their claims (you know evidence which isn't totally baseless) it would be lauded all over the scientific community and extensively reviewed...?

and yes I guess I was wrong by making a blanket statement that all scientists agree with the old age of the Earth, however, I think that 6 out of a lot is essentially zero...I'm sure I could find more PhDs who are committed into mental rehabilitation wards, doesn't make their views of the world potentially valid...

As for radiometric dating goes, carbon dating is used to get an estimate on age (as Hartmann already statement) but more refined dates are regularly used to get a more accurate estimate. In fact, the oldest known rocks are dated with a variety of radiometric schemes which have higher accuracies and precisions. And you are right in saying that "I am no scientist," but you don't need to be a scientist to understand the age of the earth, only knowledge from an 8th grade earth science class...

[jonathan83]

i'm not gonna try to look them up right now because i'm tired, but did you look into Francis Collins?

[blaarg]

i'm not gonna try to look them up right now because i'm tired, but did you look into Francis Collins?

from the wikisite:

In his book Collins examines and subsequently rejects creationism and Intelligent Design.

His own belief system is Theistic Evolution (TE) which he prefers to term BioLogos. BioLogos rests on the following premises: (1) The universe came into being out of nothingness, approximately 14 billion years ago, (2) Despite massive improbabilities, the properties of the universe appear to have been precisely tuned for life, (3) While the precise mechanism of the origin of life on earth remains unknown, once life arose, the process of evolution and natural selection permitted the development of biological diversity and complexity over very long periods of time, (4) Once evolution got under way no special supernatural intervention was required, (5) Humans are part of this process, sharing a common ancestor with the great apes, (6) But humans are also unique in ways that defy evolutionary explanation and point to our spiritual nature. This includes the existence of the Moral Law (the knowledge of right and wrong) and the search for God that characterizes all human cultures throughout history.

Although I don't believe in this particular interpretation, this is definitely more "plausible" interpretation of the origins of the universe/earth/etc (compared with the "theory" that the Earth is a couple thousand years old)... and I would have issue with his point that humans are unique in ways that defy evolutionary explanation (I don't think those issues he brought up defies evolutionary explanation)...

[Mommy]

I dont believe in evolution... would any of you say that Im a religious zealot...because I most certainly am not. I never go to church, I dont pray or read the Bible, never preach to others, etc.
I agree with Jonathan... evolution is still a theory and anyone who says that scientific FACT backs it up is sorely misinformed. I dont argue for creation or against evolution, but something inside of me feels that there is more to life than a random formation of quarks into atoms, atoms into molecules, molecules into compounds...etc. I dont care enough to argue.
Im immensely SICK AND FUCKING TIRED of atheistic assholes talking down to Christians for believing differently than them. Insecure maybe? Who knows.

[Billy]

I dont believe in evolution... would any of you say that Im a religious zealot...because I most certainly am not. I never go to church, I dont pray or read the Bible, never preach to others, etc.
I agree with Jonathan... evolution is still a theory and anyone who says that scientific FACT backs it up is sorely misinformed. I dont argue for creation or against evolution, but something inside of me feels that there is more to life than a random formation of quarks into atoms, atoms into molecules, molecules into compounds...etc. I dont care enough to argue.
Im immensely SICK AND FUCKING TIRED of atheistic assholes talking down to Christians for believing differently than them. Insecure maybe? Who knows.

And I'm SICK AND FUCKING TIRED of idiots who think faith is something sacred and something anyone should take seriously. Sorry, but faith translates into "yes, I'll believe what you say without question or evidence". I'm sorry, but if you asked any intelligent human being to believe in your claim without question or evidence, they would laugh at you. I'm also tired of christians who believe in an unproven god, of which there is no evidence to support the existance of, yet completely reject an idea that has quite a bit of evidence in support of it. You reject without even knowing anything about it. That baffles me.

So we have two suspects in a crime, one doesn't have anything other than far fetched circumstantial evidence to show he committed it, and the other suspect is OJ Simpson. Yeah, maybe neither of them did it, but if I have to pick one, I'm going to believe in the one that atleasts looks like he could have done it.


*(for clarification, my rant on "faith" was in response to jonathan)

[GOB]

am i the only one that notices the gigantic agnostic elephant standing on the altar?

[Testm0nkey]

brain development pretty much proves evolution. i dont understand why its called a "theory" except to not offend religious people

[Divergent Realit...]

brain development pretty much proves evolution. i dont understand why its called a "theory" except to not offend religious people

details?

[Testm0nkey]

super abridged version but the similarities between human and animal brain development and learning, the 3 regions of the brain that develop (or 3 levels of evolution in the brain because thats what it is) - first the hind brain of "reptilian brain" this is where basic life functions happen like breathing and fine muscle movement its the oldest form of the brain and the first to develope in humans. some life forms only have this part of the brain and they are the animals and insects that can see identified through fossil record as "oldest".
next layer is the mammalian brain, reptiles and "lower" animals dont have this. this layer is where emotion, attention and basic processes of learning and memory take place. in human development it is the 2nd layer to develop prenatal
last level is the neomammalian brain which is exclusive to primates. this is where the apex of human ability takes place like abstract reasoning, behavioral control and working memory. it is the last level to develop in humans and hooked up to EEG's and EMG's this is where most new neural connections take place - or brain evolution

the brain takes on that scrunched up wrinkly appearance because of evolution. you can see by fossil records that brains used to be smaller. as people/animals evolved their brains grew bigger but because environment has restrictions on how big you can grow the brain had to fold over onto itself to fit inside peoples heads (peoples head size has also increased they say to an extent).

also comparisons between human brain and animal brain shows they are very similar. the human brain changed when people started walking on two legs. instead of being "in front" the brain became "on top" and the spinal cord/brain stem had to go along with these changes including changing in shape

there are entire textbooks on this but evolution particularly brain development is really interesting

my favorite tidbit - all brain chemistry is based off a few ions these are Cl, K, Na, Ca. is it just coincidence that these are the primary ions that are in earth's oceans where the leading theory's and research say people developed out of? evolution uses what is in abundance and around, those ions were it when life sprung out of the ocean when the atmosphere became hospitable