OLED TVs, coming? Options

[JRockTTU]

You're calling Microsoft dumb? One of the most successful companies in this history of the United States? They brought the PC into every home in America (for much less than a TV) and they're one of the richest companies out there.

OLED has a shorter lifespan than plasma and LCD and OLEDs will need to be repalced every couple of years. The manufacturers will have returning customers purchasing new OLEDs when the old ones expire. It's simple to understand.

I didn't know Microsoft built computers.... they make software that they upgrade every few years and that is required on most computers, it's not comparable to a TV. The softwares is an accessory, the TV is the product. A better example would be someone like IBM or something. And on top of that, there are a lot of people in America that don't have home computers. And if OLED has such a short lifespan then consumers aren't going to put up with it. If I buy a TV from a company it goes out 2 years later, I'm not buying a TV from that company again.

[Seeker]

Haha, JRock comes flying into the thread out of nowhere trying to school Impala and I on economics but only comes out looking like a complete idiot.

Of course demand is going to be high for these TVs (as you said), but you fail to realize that competition between the major TV manufacturers will drive the price down.

Using your example let's say it takes $10 to produce an OLED TV. JRock starts manufacturing OLED TVs and marking them up to $200. Impala then realizes that JRock is marking up his products ridiculously high so he starts manufacturing OLED TVs for $10 too but sells them for $150 instead. Then I decide to jump in on the action and sell my OLED TVs for only $100. Pretty soon JRock realizes he isn't selling any TVs because other companies are undercutting him so he has to lower his prices too.

Competition is fundamental to Capitalism and calling it an "unforeseen force" shows how little of a grasp on economics you have. In America and other capitalist countries competition is a fact and never unforeseen. If a company comes out with a good product SOMEONE is going to copy it and compete, plain and simple. There are enough TV manufacturers out there competing to drive the price down just like the prices on LCDs and Plasmas were driven down.

Granted, when the first OLED TVs come out they will be jacked up high as hell but the profit margin the companies make will soon fall due to competition and settle around the 15-20% markup point that TV manufacturers make on Plasmas/LCDs today. The prices on OLED TVs will definitely be cheaper.

In case you still fail to understand here's a real world here and now example. DLP is a new TV technology and cheaper to produce than LCDs/Plasmas. On average the equivalent DLP TV to it's LCD/Plasma brothers will cost you at least 20% less.

You sir, are a moron. Thank you, come again.

[JRockTTU]

Haha, JRock comes flying into the thread out of nowhere trying to school Impala and I on economics but only comes out looking like a complete idiot.

Of course demand is going to be high for these TVs (as you said), but you fail to realize that competition between the major TV manufacturers will drive the price down.

Using your example let's say it takes $10 to produce an OLED TV. JRock starts manufacturing OLED TVs and marking them up to $200. Impala then realizes that JRock is marking up his products ridiculously high so he starts manufacturing OLED TVs for $10 too but sells them for $150 instead. Then I decide to jump in on the action and sell my OLED TVs for only $100. Pretty soon JRock realizes he isn't selling any TVs because other companies are undercutting him so he has to lower his prices too.

Competition is fundamental to Capitalism and calling it an "unforeseen force" shows how little of a grasp on economics you have. In America and other capitalist countries competition is a fact and never unforeseen. If a company comes out with a good product SOMEONE is going to copy it and compete, plain and simple. There are enough TV manufacturers out there competing to drive the price down just like the prices on LCDs and Plasmas were driven down.

Granted, when the first OLED TVs come out they will be jacked up high as hell but the profit margin the companies make will soon fall due to competition and settle around the 15-20% markup point that TV manufacturers make on Plasmas/LCDs today. The prices on OLED TVs will definitely be cheaper.

In case you still fail to understand here's a real world here and now example. DLP is a new TV technology and cheaper to produce than LCDs/Plasmas. On average the equivalent DLP TV to it's LCD/Plasma brothers will cost you at least 20% less.

You sir, are a moron. Thank you, come again.

How am I an idiot, you basically totally agreed with my post but typed everything out like it's different.

I mentioned that there will be competition and what I meant by "unforeseen force" is that it was not taken into account in my example. Reading comprehension ftw? I hadn't seen you two economists mention competition, so I thought someone should. Just because Vizio makes cheap flat screen TV's I don't see Sony dropping all of their prices in a panic to compete. There are different price points that different manufacturers try to push. Sony will put a big price tag on theirs and always leave it higher than the bargain price points to appeal to the snobs and fanboi's. And just because one person drops their price doesn't mean that everybody follows. One company can make $100 by selling 10 products at $10 each while the other makes $100 by selling 5 at $20 each.

First you and Impala are trying to say that OLED's are going to come out and everybody's going to have one and nobody's going to buy LCD's and Plasmas anymore. Now all of a sudden you're changing your stance and saying that they're going to be expensive at first and go down eventually (which is exactly what I said in my post). Way to stick to your guns, Hilary.

DLP is not really that new, they've been out for years now, so naturally they're going to be cheaper. I never said that OLED's are always going to be the most expensive TV's, I said that they're not going to be released at a lower price point than other technology, which you and Impala were trying to say they would be. I remember about 5 years ago when DLP's were hitting the retail stores and a 50" cost over $8,000. Any technology is going to get cheaper with time, but they're not going to miss an opportunity at making mad profits the first few years. If DLP's are so cheap to make, why were they so expensive to begin with instead of being so cheap right off the bat? Oh yeah BECAUSE IT WAS NEW FUCKING TECHNOLOGY! Just give up, you don't know what you're talking about. I don't even know why I'm arguing since you've already changed your stance and basically agreed with me in a non-agreeing way.

[pysex]

When and IF OLED's come out on to the market, and the price is really fucking high, I will serve the both of you a big steamy heaping pile of my shit.

[Seeker]

In your first post you said OLED TVs will come out at a ridiculously marked up price and then STAY marked up because of supply/demand. You FORGOT to factor competition into your formula thus making you a dumbass.

WTF are you talking about I'm agreeing with you? I disagreed with you on every point. I made a complete fool out of you and now you're agreeing with me. WTF?

[zetec]

you'll probably have to replace them, yes, but they're MUCH cheaper to produce, so chances are after the intial few batches the prices will drop like bricks.

[impala454]

I think what JRock doesn't realize is that TVs don't have all that much of a markup in the first place. Even besides that, I've noticed through following OLED for a long time, that the expectation with this stuff is that it'll be so cheap you'll see it used as magazine inserts and such. You also have to look at the definition of "cheap".

Right now, if you want a large TV that will reproduce 1080p images, you have to spend > $2,000. If you want it to be flat (and by our terms 6" thick or less) and large (say 50"+) you're going to spend in excess of $3,000-4,000. so even if a 60" OLED TV that's 1cm thick comes out at $2,000, to me, that is extremely cheap given the choices we currently have. That's also not taking into consideration the performance of the product will be much higher and use a small fraction of the power of current options.

I have a feeling though that they will be even cheaper than that though. I mean we're talking about going from having expensive, custom engineered machines building current panels, to having what's essentially an inkjet printer printing out the display material in giant rolls. that's a huge leap, and there's too many electronics companies out there and too many consumers who want the biggest baddest TV but can't afford it, for this stuff to remain an exclusive commodity.

[pebkac]

I think what JRock doesn't realize is that TVs don't have all that much of a markup in the first place. Even besides that, I've noticed through following OLED for a long time, that the expectation with this stuff is that it'll be so cheap you'll see it used as magazine inserts and such. You also have to look at the definition of "cheap".

TVs are one of the few consumer electronics pieces of hardware that DOES have a high markup. My managers love it when we sell them because they're an easy $800 of pure margin.

Irregardless, if the process to make it is as simple as you say it is, all that may very well change in the near future.

This post has been edited by pebkac: Sep 14 2007, 11:01 PM

[impala454]

well i know markup back like 8 years ago when i worked for best buy was about 5% on TVs, but then again that was before the whole HDTV craze and most TVs we sold were CRTs. most of the stuff I've read says markup on them nowadays is about 20% which sounds about right since these LCDs and plasmas are probably cheaper to make than CRTs.

i just meant the markup isn't that much in a relative sense. the items they really try to push on you are marked up like 500%, like cables, power strips, etc. which is why you see gold plated connector HDMI cables selling for >$100 when the employee price (5% above cost) is like $8. and also why you see every employee in the store try to sell you fifteen cables with your purchase and explain why you need those particular cables.

if they keep their consistent markup or even increase it some i bet we'll see 50"+ TVs going for $500 and computer monitors even cheaper.

[zetec]

TVs are one of the few consumer electronics pieces of hardware that DOES have a high markup. My managers love it when we sell them because they're an easy $800 of pure margin.

Irregardless, if the process to make it is as simple as you say it is, all that may very well change in the near future.

IRREGARDLESS IS NOT A WORD GODDAMMIT

[Spectatrix]

Sure it is; it's just an etymologically incorrect word.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/irregardless

[zetec]

from your own site:

irregardless
an erroneous word that, etymologically, means the exact opposite of what it is used to express, attested in non-standard writing from 1912, probably a blend of irrespective and regardless. Perhaps inspired by the double negative used as an emphatic.

[pebkac]

I plan to use the word anyway irregardless.

[impala454]

from your own site:

so you post this irregardless of reading christine's post which she clearly said it was a word, simply not etywhatever correct

[impala454]

Samsung has come out with 31" OLED at the latest trade show:

http://www.behardware.com/news/9444/cebit-...-inch-oled.html