US compared to Rome Options

[dauss]

Learn from the fall of Rome, US warned

The US government is on a ‘burning platform’ of unsustainable policies and practices with fiscal deficits, chronic healthcare underfunding, immigration and overseas military commitments threatening a crisis if action is not taken soon, the country’s top government inspector has warned.

David Walker, comptroller general of the US, issued the unusually downbeat assessment of his country’s future in a report that lays out what he called “chilling long-term simulations”.

These include “dramatic” tax rises, slashed government services and the large-scale dumping by foreign governments of holdings of US debt.

Drawing parallels with the end of the Roman empire, Mr Walker warned there were “striking similarities” between America’s current situation and the factors that brought down Rome, including “declining moral values and political civility at home, an over-confident and over-extended military in foreign lands and fiscal irresponsibility by the central government”.

“Sound familiar?” Mr Walker said. “In my view, it’s time to learn from history and take steps to ensure the American Republic is the first to stand the test of time.”

Mr Walker’s views carry weight because he is a non-partisan figure in charge of the Government Accountability Office, often described as the investigative arm of the US Congress.

While most of its studies are commissioned by legislators, about 10 per cent – such as the one containing his latest warnings – are initiated by the comptroller general himself.

In an interview with the Financial Times, Mr Walker said he had mentioned some of the issues before but now wanted to “turn up the volume”. Some of them were too sensitive for others in government to “have their name associated with”.

“I’m trying to sound an alarm and issue a wake-up call,” he said. “As comptroller general I’ve got an ability to look longer-range and take on issues that others may be hesitant, and in many cases may not be in a position, to take on.

“One of the concerns is obviously we are a great country but we face major sustainability challenges that we are not taking seriously enough,” said Mr Walker, who was appointed during the Clinton administration to the post, which carries a 15-year term.

The fiscal imbalance meant the US was “on a path toward an explosion of debt”.

“With the looming retirement of baby boomers, spiralling healthcare costs, plummeting savings rates and increasing reliance on foreign lenders, we face unprecedented fiscal risks,” said Mr Walker, a former senior executive at PwC auditing firm.

Current US policy on education, energy, the environment, immigration and Iraq also was on an “unsustainable path”.

“Our very prosperity is placing greater demands on our physical infrastructure. Billions of dollars will be needed to modernise everything from highways and airports to water and sewage systems. The recent bridge collapse in Minneapolis was a sobering wake-up call.”

Mr Walker said he would offer to brief the would-be presidential candidates next spring.

“They need to make fiscal responsibility and inter-generational equity one of their top priorities. If they do, I think we have a chance to turn this around but if they don’t, I think the risk of a serious crisis rises considerably”.

[impala454]

so our policies on education, energy, the environment, immigration, and iraq will be the downfall of our country. it's convient and democrat-esque that the guy doesn't list any detailed reasons, or suggest what we change to keep this 'downfall' from happening.

education: people come here from all over the world to get their education. what's wrong with our education policy?
energy: wtf is this even supposed to mean. how would energy policy lead to the downfall of our country.
environment: how would this lead to our downfall?
immigration: how would this lead to our downfall?
Iraq: how would this lead to our downfall?

[schwab]

so our policies on education, energy, the environment, immigration, and iraq will be the downfall of our country. it's convient and democrat-esque that the guy doesn't list any detailed reasons, or suggest what we change to keep this 'downfall' from happening.

education: people come here from all over the world to get their education. what's wrong with our education policy?
energy: wtf is this even supposed to mean. how would energy policy lead to the downfall of our country.
environment: how would this lead to our downfall?
immigration: how would this lead to our downfall?
Iraq: how would this lead to our downfall?

education? maybe our universities are good, but the rest of our public education is fucking terrible.

im just saying that, im not trying to argue with you...about this

but hell, i think the US is getting weaker as time goes on....

[dauss]

so our policies on education, energy, the environment, immigration, and iraq will be the downfall of our country. it's convient and democrat-esque that the guy doesn't list any detailed reasons, or suggest what we change to keep this 'downfall' from happening.

education: people come here from all over the world to get their education. what's wrong with our education policy?
energy: wtf is this even supposed to mean. how would energy policy lead to the downfall of our country.
environment: how would this lead to our downfall?
immigration: how would this lead to our downfall?
Iraq: how would this lead to our downfall?

found this:
Education: "Unfortunately, we're not even in the top 20 nations in math and science scores at the high-school level. This represents a huge problem in a knowledge-based economy. If our country expects to maintain its standard of living, we’re going to have to stay competitive on measures like innovation, productivity, and product quality. Fixing our K through12 education system will require radical reform and concerted efforts by all levels of government and all sectors of the economy. We must move beyond rhetoric and start delivering real results for a broad spectrum of the American population."

The other stuff I found was talking about Medicare and health care. You didn't list it so I assume that you'll agree with him on that front.

As far as energy, he's probably talking about ethanol. Supposed savior to get us off of foreign oil and a source for renewable energy(which ties into the environment).

[impala454]

well i guess what i don't really connect is, how is not being in the top 20 nations K-12 going to bring the downfall of our country?

i don't agree on healthcare, i think our healthcare system is fine. i don't want government subsidized healthcare, nor do i believe that not having it will bring the downfall of our country.

how would not using ethanol or any other energy issue end up being the downfall of our country?

i guess my take on these kinda doomsday reports is, it's really not as bad as everyone thinks, because they spend all day imagining just how bad it is.

[THECHICKEN]

The roman empire fell because it had too much land to cover from hostile nations constantly attacking in on it. And the fact that the governmental power was pretty much disjointed after the move of the capital to constantinopel (again, largely a distance problem of governming).

The military being "over-confident and over-extended" in roman times is completely different from the current condition. Over extended in roman times means that they couldn't muster a military force to suppress the outer regions of its borders based on trained army per amount of land needed to protect... while our "over-extended" is the UNWILLINGNESS to muster forces large enough to SUPRESS another country to our will (making a draft, mandatory service, or population willing to join in herds). Much like pre-WWII, we aren't willing to commit mass people into military service... doesn't mean we couldn't.

As for "over-confident", im not even sure what that means. Because rummy thought the force that could invade iraq could also maintain stability was wrong does that mean our MILITARY was over-confident? Considering that any modern war is predetermined to have america as the superior force, its hard to say they are "over-confident"... maybe ill-prepared for PERFECT survival rates of the soldiers, but that doesn't seem like our military is in any threat of failure anytime in the near future.

Honestly the domestic side seems like a more obvious "downfall" of america (such as economy crashing), but that happened to japan and they are still around... Rome isn't around anymore because their cities were sacked and they fell completely apart... i don't see that as much of a threat in the U.S.

God im tired, hoped that reads like i said in my head... heh

[pysex]

again...i don't think they're saying this shit could happen tomorrow

these are things that could be problems in the future...and how do you change the future? you change the present

[impala454]

true... i just wonder where step 2 is that kinda makes the article mamke sense i.e.

step 1: gather underpants
step 2: ---
step 3: profit!

step 1: education, environment, energy, immigration, iraq
step 2: ---
step 3: american falls

i mean, the only major country I recall that's fallen in the past couple hundred years is the USSR, and it fell simply because they couldn't make the communist society work (shocker).

[Jim]

It may be a stretch, but if there is a pattern in America's education going to the shitter, that means in 20 years we may be one of the dumbest nations in the world. And if that's the case, our downfall could be more obvious.

[GOB]

i'm assuming most of your morons came from crappy schools, which is why you are arguing that our educational system sucks.


i received most of my education from an amazing school district... and then i moved to texas during my senior year; it was like going back to eighth grade. go figure.

[THECHICKEN]

Gotta love how in europe the children are REQUIRED to speak 2 languages (one being english) before graduating. And yet we bitch constantly on how we can't speak one other language (spanish) and how english should only be learned by mexicans coming here.

Seems like a good grade school system could have been developed by now for the U.S.

[impala454]

i dont understand either why everyone thinks our K-12 is so bad. you got kids learning algebra in 6th grade, doing calculus by their sophomore year in high school, taking physics and chemistry and biology classes that are way more advanced than anything that was even available when our parents were in school. you've got junior high kids building robots and doing all kinds of neat hands on stuff. you've got programming classes starting to come up.

i personally went to public schools in deer park, tx (SE houston area). i thought that i came out extremely well prepared for college. if i recall correctly i started algebra in the 7th grade, and ended up taking calculus my jr year, and then no math at all sr year bc i was lazy (heh). i know some kids got bussed over to the local CC for calc 2 their sr year, i sure as hell didnt wanna do that.

and i know what some will say "but zomgs the inner city schools are so terrible blah blah blah". well.. i'd be very interested to see some comparison of what they're learning there vs 20-30 years ago. i'd be willing to bet that at the worst they're still getting into geometry and trig and such by their senior year.

[Mommy]

our education system is absolute shit. I subbed at all the high schools in LISD. One time, I was subbing a geography class at Coronado and more than half the class couldn't tell me where England was on a map. Uhhh I learned that in like the 3rd grade. Public education is shit in most Texas schools.

[FORSAKENR320]

i don't understand why people put such an emphasis on k-12 graqdes anyway. countries who are high on the education list send their students to study at OUR colleges. and our work system is the true training program. what alot of people lack on paperwork they are trained first hand on the job anyway. hell, dogmeat spent 5 years getting an engineer degree, and when he got hired, THAT"S when he actually started learning something about the job. high school education may be low, but capitalism works and is the drive of this country.

[impala454]

our education system is absolute shit. I subbed at all the high schools in LISD. One time, I was subbing a geography class at Coronado and more than half the class couldn't tell me where England was on a map. Uhhh I learned that in like the 3rd grade. Public education is shit in most Texas schools.

thats because people don't give a shit about geography class