Hummer greener than Prius Options

[impala454]

I'm surprised no one discussed this yet... I haven't found any decent links but they discussed it on the world news the other night on some "Dust to Dust" report done. Basically, from manufacture to garbage heap, the hummer will use way less energy than a prius, as well as the prius production itself having adverse affects on the environment. Apparently the big pollutant for the prius, is something like the nickel mining for its lots of batteries being one of the dirtiest, most polluting resources on the planet today.

here's a quick story (yes i know its a hummer site) but it will explain what the story is about.
http://www.hummerguy.net/hummer-news/study...ndly-than-prius

Building a Toyota Prius causes more environmental damage than a Hummer that is on the road for three times longer than a Prius. As already noted, the Prius is partly driven by a battery which contains nickel. The nickel is mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the ‘dead zone’ around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the plant is devoid of any life for miles.

The plant is the source of all the nickel found in a Prius’ battery and Toyota purchases 1,000 tons annually. Dubbed the Superstack, the plague-factory has spread sulfur dioxide across northern Ontario, becoming every environmentalist’s nightmare.

[Aaron]

Nice find!

[Psykopath]

I'm surprised no one discussed this yet... I haven't found any decent links but they discussed it on the world news the other night on some "Dust to Dust" report done. Basically, from manufacture to garbage heap, the hummer will use way less energy than a prius, as well as the prius production itself having adverse affects on the environment. Apparently the big pollutant for the prius, is something like the nickel mining for its lots of batteries being one of the dirtiest, most polluting resources on the planet today.

here's a quick story (yes i know its a hummer site) but it will explain what the story is about.
http://www.hummerguy.net/hummer-news/study...ndly-than-prius

Solution: Everyone buy a Hummer!

Since when did you care about the environment, Impala?

[James]

I think he wanted to point out that everyone else is misguided in their crusade for the environment, but I could be wrong.

[Psykopath]

I think he wanted to point out that everyone else is misguided in their crusade for the environment, but I could be wrong.

Everyone else is misguided?
I sure hope he wasn't assuming something so.....yeah....

I see what he was pointing out overall though.

[FORSAKENR320]

wanna save the enviroment? kill people.


kill lots of them. things will get better

[James]

Yeah. That's a very true statement. One child per family would be a less radical means of dealing with that situation though

[FORSAKENR320]

Yeah. That's a very true statement. One child per family would be a less radical means of dealing with that situation though

some families deserve to be culled more than others. i think it should be everyone for themselves slaughterfest.

[James]

That'd just be silly. We'd revert to an age of no new ideas because the majority of the intellectuals would be killed off or forced to stop thinking and focus their attention on self-preservation.

Then again, I guess history does repeat itself, so why fight it. Begin the slaughterfest.

[dauss]

I read it back in March and was skeptical about the article, that being an editorial from a small college paper. The original link to the article has expired, but a copy remains in Google's Cache.

To make a comparison, gotta post the whole thing and not some little snippet from the whole article.

The Toyota Prius has become the flagship car for those in our society so environmentally conscious that they are willing to spend a premium to show the world how much they care. Unfortunately for them, their ultimate ‘green car’ is the source of some of the worst pollution in North America; it takes more combined energy per Prius to produce than a Hummer.

Before we delve into the seedy underworld of hybrids, you must first understand how a hybrid works. For this, we will use the most popular hybrid on the market, the Toyota Prius.

The Prius is powered by not one, but two engines: a standard 76 horsepower, 1.5-liter gas engine found in most cars today and a battery- powered engine that deals out 67 horsepower and a whooping 295ft/lbs of torque, below 2000 revolutions per minute. Essentially, the Toyota Synergy Drive system, as it is so called, propels the car from a dead stop to up to 30mph. This is where the largest percent of gas is consumed. As any physics major can tell you, it takes more energy to get an object moving than to keep it moving. The battery is recharged through the braking system, as well as when the gasoline engine takes over anywhere north of 30mph. It seems like a great energy efficient and environmentally sound car, right?

You would be right if you went by the old government EPA estimates, which netted the Prius an incredible 60 miles per gallon in the city and 51 miles per gallon on the highway. Unfortunately for Toyota, the government realized how unrealistic their EPA tests were, which consisted of highway speeds limited to 55mph and acceleration of only 3.3 mph per second. The new tests which affect all 2008 models give a much more realistic rating with highway speeds of 80mph and acceleration of 8mph per second. This has dropped the Prius’s EPA down by 25 percent to an average of 45mpg. This now puts the Toyota within spitting distance of cars like the Chevy Aveo, which costs less then half what the Prius costs.

However, if that was the only issue with the Prius, I wouldn’t be writing this article. It gets much worse.

Building a Toyota Prius causes more environmental damage than a Hummer that is on the road for three times longer than a Prius. As already noted, the Prius is partly driven by a battery which contains nickel. The nickel is mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the ‘dead zone’ around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the plant is devoid of any life for miles.

The plant is the source of all the nickel found in a Prius’ battery and Toyota purchases 1,000 tons annually. Dubbed the Superstack, the plague-factory has spread sulfur dioxide across northern Ontario, becoming every environmentalist’s nightmare.

“The acid rain around Sudbury was so bad it destroyed all the plants and the soil slid down off the hillside,” said Canadian Greenpeace energy-coordinator David Martin during an interview with Mail, a British-based newspaper.

All of this would be bad enough in and of itself; however, the journey to make a hybrid doesn’t end there. The nickel produced by this disastrous plant is shipped via massive container ship to the largest nickel refinery in Europe. From there, the nickel hops over to China to produce ‘nickel foam.’ From there, it goes to Japan. Finally, the completed batteries are shipped to the United States, finalizing the around-the-world trip required to produce a single Prius battery. Are these not sounding less and less like environmentally sound cars and more like a farce?

Wait, I haven’t even got to the best part yet.

When you pool together all the combined energy it takes to drive and build a Toyota Prius, the flagship car of energy fanatics, it takes almost 50 percent more energy than a Hummer - the Prius’s arch nemesis.

Through a study by CNW Marketing called “Dust to Dust,” the total combined energy is taken from all the electrical, fuel, transportation, materials (metal, plastic, etc) and hundreds of other factors over the expected lifetime of a vehicle. The Prius costs an average of $3.25 per mile driven over a lifetime of 100,000 miles - the expected lifespan of the Hybrid.

The Hummer, on the other hand, costs a more fiscal $1.95 per mile to put on the road over an expected lifetime of 300,000 miles. That means the Hummer will last three times longer than a Prius and use less combined energy doing it.

So, if you are really an environmentalist - ditch the Prius. Instead, buy one of the most economical cars available - a Toyota Scion xB. The Scion only costs a paltry $0.48 per mile to put on the road. If you are still obsessed over gas mileage - buy a Chevy Aveo and fix that lead foot.

One last fun fact for you: it takes five years to offset the premium price of a Prius. Meaning, you have to wait 60 months to save any money over a non-hybrid car because of lower gas expenses.

LOL, a GM with 300,000 miles.

Anyways, counterpoints are provided by someone else on how this article is crap, and this part is copied from here:

1. Take the "spitting distance" mileage, for example. The new EPA combined mileage put the Chevy Aveo at 26 mpg, the Toyota Prius at 46 mpg. So I guess 20 miles more per gallon is "spitting distance."
2. The "Dust-to-dust" study is from a marketing firm, not a science journal. It arrives at an artificially high cost for the Prius by assigning it an arbitrary lifespan of 100k miles, and a Hummer 300k miles. There's Prius being used as cabs that have 200k on them now: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8839690/
And, insofar as a car lasting, what car do you expect to repair less? A Toyota Prius or a GM Hummer? You can check Consumer Reports for the answer to that one. A good analysis of the flaws in dust-to-dust is available at:
http://www.truedelta.com/blog/?p=48
3. The Sudbury info is seriously outdated, and the comment about moon buggies (like, when did Nasa test moon buggies — early 1970’s) ought to have given the author a clue. Sudbury was polluted by a century of mining (1870 on). In fact, some of Sudbury’s nickel went into making the Statue of Liberty. Currently, the mine is owned by INCO (not Toyota), and produces 100,000 tons of nickel a year, of which Toyota buys 1% (1000 tons). Nickel, by the way, is primarily used to make stainless steel. The Mail on Sunday newspaper, which ran the story the college article is a thin re-write of (visible here http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/live/a...in_page_id=1770 ), used a stock photo from 1994 to illustrate the pollution (visible here http://www.photoboy.com/bin/Cklb?vmo=1173985067754 ). There were, of course, no Prius in existence or being manufactured in 1994.

Sudbury is no longer as polluted, as INCO and the city have planted over 8 million trees there since 1979. The best history online of the Sudbury devastation/reforestation comes from GM Canada (the trees were all cut down in 1871 to help rebuild Chicago after the fire), and it provides telling photos of some of the reclamation from 1979 to present.
http://www.gmcanada.com/inm/gmcanada/english/about/MissionG

And there's this:

Unfortunately, CNW Marketing analysis that Chris Demorro based his article on is fatally flawed.

First, it incorrectly assumes that hybrid batteries are not recycled. In reality, Toyota has very successful recycling program, including a $200 bounty on Prius batteries.

Second, it is interesting that he mentions the Scion xB. Yet he fails to note that the CNW report data on the xA and xB don't make any sense. They are built on the same assembly line, have the same powertrains, only differ in weight by 50 lbs or so, and have similar efficiency (~35mpg), yet the CNW study shows the lifetime energy use of these vehicles to differ by 50 percent. How's that work?

Third, the CNW report makes really bad assumptions about where the bulk of lifecycle energy use occurs (eg manufacturing vs operation).

In short, it's misinformed at best and is more likely an intentional greenwash to assuage SUV owner dissonance in a post 9/11 world.

So, using outdated sources and arbitrary numbers really makes that article total crap.

Also quoted from someone else:

FWIW, Chris Demorro owns/drives a 1969 Mercury Cougar and a 1995 F-body. I wonder what kind of milage and environmental impact those have.
http://ccsucarclub.com/index.php?page=chrisd

[Psykopath]

HAHA, glad the article actually had some context now. Now it makes way better sense.


A Hummer...enviromentally friendly in ANY way imaginable...LMFAO.

[FORSAKENR320]

That'd just be silly. We'd revert to an age of no new ideas because the majority of the intellectuals would be killed off or forced to stop thinking and focus their attention on self-preservation.

Then again, I guess history does repeat itself, so why fight it. Begin the slaughterfest.

dammit, i wish that i could find the place that i read this... "in the event of a total world war..... the things witht eh greatest chance of survival are cockroaches...and rednecks"



rednecks are extremely adaptable.... they can live on anything...heh

[impala454]

wanna save the enviroment? kill people.
kill lots of them. things will get better

quoted for truth

one average human being puts out more CO2 than the average car in a given year. (I posted this before with a link just dont feel like looking it up again)

[impala454]

Since when did you care about the environment, Impala?

oh i could give two shits about the environment. it's just funny to me when the greenies think they're doing all this to help when they really arent. like i've always said, i'll give the treehuggers respect when they move out into the woods naked and survive without killing any living thing or disturbing the environment

[impala454]

HAHA, glad the article actually had some context now. Now it makes way better sense.
A Hummer...enviromentally friendly in ANY way imaginable...LMFAO.

no one ever said the hummer was "environmentally friendly". the basic idea is they're pointing out that even the magical prius has adverse affects on the environment.