Based on the VT thread, vote Options

[Psykopath]

having a gun doesn't make me more "fit" to survive, but it does make me more capable to survive, and THAT is the point you are missing.

being smart enough to understand that my chances of fighting an armed assailant unarmed are slim to none is not darwinism.

darwinism would be being stupid enough to think that the world is a peaceful happy place where nothing goes wrong. you know what else lives that way? cattle. we should never trust the system to protect us. they can't be there all the time. wether it be from violence or from accidents. how many of us have had a friend die in an accident where the ambulance didn't show up for an hour? or the only time a police officer is there is AFTER the victim has be ravaged, robbed and raped? sitting back with our thumbs up our ass thinking that someone else will take care of us is the dumbest thing i have heard. doesn't just apply to guns. train yourself, learn CPR, learn other emergency techniques. learn to fight, to survive, and defend yourselves, because when that disaster happens to YOU.... the only person you'll have to blame for your ill prepared plight will be yourself. and THAT my fuzzy headed roomie is what makes me more "fit" to survive.

Living your life being prepared is one thing, but to be in constant "alert mode" and feel that the world is totally fucked every-which-way you slice it and you need a gun all the time is absolutely absurd.

In the realm of "survival of the fittest," "fit" and "capable" are essentially interchangeable. I have not missed any point, you are apparently missing your own on this statement.

And for fuck's sake, I do not, nor have I ever, assumed that the world is a "peaceful happy place." Yes, the world can be a dangerous place, but to continue to perpetuate a mentality that the only way to go about your day normally is to be strapped breeds, as I said before, a mass mindset of fear.



I have said my peace on this issue. You know my support for firearms as well as my qualms with much of the legislation.
I just differ from you about the logic behind walking in a classroom with a loaded .357 to take a math test or an AK to help "tutor" me in physics.

[Billy]

Ok Zach, even though it may "seem" having lax gun laws vs tougher gun laws would increase the murder rate, or violent crime rate, I am going to have to require some evidence that agrees with your belief. Because here is 'some' evidence that disagrees:

Utah, one of the most gun happy states, for 2005, has a murder rate of 2.3 per one hundred thousand people. New Jersey, one the most gun restrictive states, for 2005, has a murder of double, at 4.8 per one hundred thousand people. California, also with strict gun laws, has a murder rate of tripple, at 6.9 per one hundred thousand. However, Virginia, being a state I believe with lax gun laws, also has a murder rate of 6.1 per one hundred thousand.

I have looked at other states as well and there does not seem to be a correlation between how tough your gun laws are and how many murders occur. And so the belief that having more guns means there will be more deaths, I think is unfounded. However, there is a correlation with how populated a state is and how many murders per one hundred thousand happen. So perhaps we should ban heavy populations instead of guns.

Source for Utah
Source for New Jersey
Source for California

[chook]

I'd carry a gun but perfer a laser gun. PEW PEW PEW!!

[Psykopath]

Ok Zach, even though it may "seem" having lax gun laws vs tougher gun laws would increase the murder rate, or violent crime rate, I am going to have to require some evidence that agrees with your belief. Because here is 'some' evidence that disagrees:

Utah, one of the most gun happy states, for 2005, has a murder rate of 2.3 per one hundred thousand people. New Jersey, one the most gun restrictive states, for 2005, has a murder of double, at 4.8 per one hundred thousand people. California, also with strict gun laws, has a murder rate of tripple, at 6.9 per one hundred thousand. However, Virginia, being a state I believe with lax gun laws, also has a murder rate of 6.1 per one hundred thousand.

I have looked at other states as well and there does not seem to be a correlation between how tough your gun laws are and how many murders occur. And so the belief that having more guns means there will be more deaths, I think is unfounded. However, there is a correlation with how populated a state is and how many murders per one hundred thousand happen. So perhaps we should ban heavy populations instead of guns.

Source for Utah
Source for New Jersey
Source for California

I am not necessarily arguing for stricter gun laws, I'm simply going against the idea of free carry of firearms at such places as schools, federal buildings, etc.

Yes, I am for a licensing/registration system, similar to what is required to operate/own a vehicle, for the purchase of guns and ammo. That's not really a restriction. Those that qualify now (competent, of age, etc.) would qualify with this system, it's really just a more standardized way of keeping track of firearms

BTW: The statistics you posted...were they all involving firearms, or were they a mix?

[Mommy]

yup. i agree with Zach. I wouldnt even trust most of you with carrying guns around at all times. It really doesnt make you any safer.

[FORSAKENR320]

yup. i agree with Zach. I wouldnt even trust most of you with carrying guns around at all times. It really doesnt make you any safer.

YOU carrying a gun is what would be unsafe... BAH the dutch.....



(dunno why i really said that)

[schwab]

i dont think i would be any safer with other people with guns on campus

im sure most of the people on here handle guns safely and all of that crap, but a lot of the people out there wouldnt be.

[cupcake]

in response to walking around on "alert" all the time...well you may not. But that is because you've never had to. There are ways to be alert yet not necessarily on pins and needles. I find that I am much more thoughtful and relaxed when carrying, than when I am not...because when I am not I'm less confident about my ability to fulfill my duties as a protector.

I googled colonel jeff cooper's color code just for giggles, you might check it out below...I live in yellow...you may think that "totally fucked every-which-way you slice it", but I call it rad. I think walking around like a dillitante frolicking through the daisies is fucked. that kind of innocence is the luxury you provide for children...it is your duty as a grown man or woman to protect yourself, your loved ones, your property, and your neighbor...

it is NOT the govts duty...if you live that way, your chances of being victimized increase with multiplicity...

to zack...you want to register guns and ammo based on this idiot? so what next you have to register to speak freely? it's a right under the constitution...driving a fuckin car isn't...

that is some pinko shit man. yeah, let's give the crooked ass govt all the info about what we have so they know exactly where to come and what to get when they finally get 1984 on us...not thanks...

to the girl who said guns are cowardly...man your whole post is indicative of someone who's obviously never (thankfully) been in a mortal situation. some of y'all need to quit watching so much tv...reality check, no one is a fuckin ninja that can take down an armed man intent on harm with their bare hands and feet or a knife or some bullshit jackie chan pillowcase trick. you try that shit you get dead fast.

there's a lot of ignorant (in the dictionary sense) jibber jabber here about mortal combat...

_______________________

Combat Mindset - The Cooper Color Code
The most important means of surviving a lethal confrontation is, according to Cooper, neither the weapon nor the martial skills. The primary tool is the combat mindset, set forth in Principles of Personal Defense.

In the chapter on awareness, Cooper presents an adaptation of the Marine Corps system to differentiate states of readiness:

White - Unaware and unprepared. If attacked in Condition White, the only thing that may save you is the inadequacy or ineptitude of your attacker. When confronted by something nasty, your reaction will probably be "Oh my God! This can't be happening to me."

Yellow - Relaxed alert. No specific threat situation. Your mindset is that "today could be the day I may have to defend myself." You are simply aware that the world is an unfriendly place and that you are prepared to do something, if necessary. You use your eyes and ears, and realize that "I may have to SHOOT today." You don't have to be armed in this state but if you are armed you should be in Condition Yellow. You should always be in Yellow whenever you are in unfamiliar surroundings or among people you don't know. You can remain in Yellow for long periods, as long as you are able to "Watch your six". In Yellow, you are "taking in" surrounding information in a relaxed but alert manner, like a continuous 360 degree radar sweep.

Orange - Specific alert. Something is not quite right and has gotten your attention. Your radar has picked up a specific alert. You shift your primary focus to determine if there is a threat (but you do not drop your six). Your mindset shifts to "I may have to shoot HIM today." In Condition Orange, you set a mental trigger: "If that goblin does "x", I will need to stop him." Your pistol usually remains holstered in this state. Staying in Orange can be a bit of a mental strain, but you can stay in it for as long as you need to. If the threat proves to be nothing, you shift back to Condition Yellow.

Red - Condition Red is fight. Your mental trigger has been "tripped" (established back in Condition Orange).
You take appropriate action.

The U.S.M.C. also uses "Condition Black" as actively engaged in combat, as do some of his successors, but Cooper always felt this is an unnecessary step and not in keeping with the mindset definitions.

Also note that the Color Code was never meant to be a warning system. Rather, the Color Code was designed to be a mental crutch. It was designed to allow someone to "get over" the resistance that a normal person has in pointing a pistol at the center of someone's chest and pulling the trigger.

In short, the Color Code helps you "think" in a fight. As the level of danger increases, your resistance to shoot decreases. If you ever do go to Condition Red, the decision to use lethal force has already been made (your "mental trigger" has been tripped).

[impala454]

cars kill people all the time, take away all cars.

[cupcake]

fuck it...I just can't help myself...this post is golden...

there are more than a few people who cannot be trusted with guns.

no shit. there are more than a few people who suck ass at driving. namely dallas chicks. should we refuse them their BMWs because they are dangerous with their cell phone latte driving? that would be a helluvalot much more plausible because "the right to drive" is not in the constitution last I checked...

A better scenario than Zach's would be if you saw someone on campus running with a gun at a distance, you saw them being chased by police and decided to shoot your own gun. Let's say you're a good shot and you kill them, or hell, you're a terrible shot and you accidentally caught their left temple. Now, you have taken someone else's life in a split-second. Now, let's say the cops come up to you and reveal to you that the man you just shot was an undercover policeman. The cops were just running a training exercise to become more prepared for a situation like Virginia Tech. What now? You killed a cop, believing you were protecting yourself and others.

and yet an better scenerio would be having daffy duck fly out of my ass. I don't even know wtf you're talking about...

why the hell, if they cops were "on it", would anyone intervene? they wouldn't...don't be dumb.

I will never own a gun.

neato

Death is too easily dispensed in the form of bullets.

I might learn how to shoot one, just to be prepared for any instance where i would truly need one.

ahhh and here we have the jewel...

I can drive a forklift, have a license, etc. but if I needed to load an air conditioner in the back of a pickup today, how the hell will that training help me...if in fact I do not OWN said forklift.

are you just going to take the gunman's gun away and use it on him?

But if I am face to face with someone who has a gun, then I will face death knowing that I could never threaten others with instant death like they have and that makes me a better human being than them.

shut the fuck up.

you will not face death with such bravado and lofty conviction...you will piss yourself and cry and sob and plead and you then you will get shot and then as you lay growing cold with feces running down your leg, you will wish you could live by any means. then you will die. I've yet to witness warriors "staring down death"...much less some college chick.

I don't like guns; they make killing as simple as playing video games. If you have a problem with someone own up to it and fight them fairly instead of trying to take them out with little bits of metal from afar. I think that guns are cowardly in a way; (sorry Zach) they are too rash.

a firefight feels almost exactly like a video game. later it doesn't...but at the time it does.

"if you have a problem with someone"??? are you retarded? serious question...because those 32 people killed by Cho didn't have a problem with him...the guy breaking into your home isn't doing so because you and he have bad blood between you...

also, in regards to mortal situations, there is no such thing as a fair fight. the only rule that matters is not get dead....by any means necessary.

you actually think that if someone comes up behind you at an ATM with a gun, that you are going...wait nevermind, I forgot, you're gonna stand there with the conviction that you are a better person than he...for the next 4 seconds...

In my opinion, most confrontations with guns involve at least one person who either: a. doesn't know what they're doing b. does know what they're doing and has ill temperament or c. misinterpretted the severity of the situation.

In my opinion, people who make asinine posts like this one generally has no frickin clue and is talking out their TOTALLY speculative, lollipop ass...

edit: I do believe that the only thing that guns are appropriate for is hunting animals, but there are different ways to hunt as well.

lastly...have you ever hunted? have you ever fired a compound hunting bow with a 65lb pull? have you ever tried to stalk an animal close enough to hit it with that bow?

it's a challenge. I've never gotten a kill with a bow. and the slow, bleeding death of an arrow is arguably much more cruel to the animal than a 300 winmag to the bread basket.

[Dogmeat]

I don't think gun control is the issue here.

Let's say everyone on campus had a gun that day.

He wouldn't have attacked people with guns, he would have resorted to poison gas, bombings, whatever.

Making the playing field level so to speak would just up the ante to potential offenders if you see what I mean...

So quite honestly, it's not so much an issue about gun control as it is an issue for identifying psychos before they strike.

With that said, in this particular instance, perhaps another person with a gun could have adverted a travesty, but what is the other person with a gun gonna do against home-brewed nerve gas or arson or whatevever else could have been done?

[Mommy]

This is my whole take on guns: They are a necessity in our society. I dont think that they should be outlawed. Sometimes I dont see a point to owning so damn many of them, but Im not a boy (haha the only girl I know thats a huge gun collector is a huge dyke...no offense).

The way that I see it is I DONT WANT ONE. Why? Because I know that I dont ever want to kill someone.... I dont want that kind of power in my hands. Guns bring that power...so do other things like cars. I guess thats why I have to be as safe of a driver as possible. Gun owners can be safe too. I dont have confidence that that is something I could be safe with so I dont own one. I am confident, however, that I can be a safe driver.

Its kinda eery having confidence in other people who carry guns...just like its kinda scary to have confidence in other drivers. Most people suck ass at driving. A lot of you guys have confidence with guns because its something you grew up around or, in Cupcake's case, had to use in the military. I grew up seeing cars used so they dont frighten me as much. I havent seen much of guns so they are very unfamiliar to me. I have thought about buying a gun for my home, but still that is kinda weird to me.

I guess I would rather be less safe myself than run the risk of screwing up and killing an innocent person.... because I dont have confidence in myself.

Rambled thoughts. Sorry. Im at work

[cupcake]

speaking of trusting people with guns...

do you guys get nervous when you see a cop with a gun?

I ask because they do not train very much. Most departments require them to qualify twice a year. That's it as far as range time goes. Sure the cop can shoot in his off time, but they don't have to.

most people who carry like to go to the range often...I go twice a week when my schedule allows.

but something about the badge and uniform make you feel comfortable with them carrying. like fight club...the illusion of safety.

[Dogmeat]

speaking of trusting people with guns...

do you guys get nervous when you see a cop with a gun?

I ask because they do not train very much. Most departments require them to qualify twice a year. That's it as far as range time goes. Sure the cop can shoot in his off time, but they don't have to.

most people who carry like to go to the range often...I go twice a week when my schedule allows.

but something about the badge and uniform make you feel comfortable with them carrying. like fight club...the illusion of safety.

It could be just me but most of the cops I know are avid shooters ... usually at the range several times a month ...

[Mommy]

speaking of trusting people with guns...

do you guys get nervous when you see a cop with a gun?

I ask because they do not train very much. Most departments require them to qualify twice a year. That's it as far as range time goes. Sure the cop can shoot in his off time, but they don't have to.

most people who carry like to go to the range often...I go twice a week when my schedule allows.

but something about the badge and uniform make you feel comfortable with them carrying. like fight club...the illusion of safety.

I dont trust anyone with a gun...unless they are a good friend and they were over in Iraq or Afghanistan. Then maybe