Vista, Split from vista antivirus Options

[chook]

I used 2000 until 2005. Lance is right with SP2 making most of XP bearable. I tried vista and its a bloated piece of crap, but will probably be worked on. The problem is that MS puts out fairly unstable software. I would be using a mac OS except that I am really stuck in the Windows rut.

[impala454]

I like how the Vista backlash has many people admitting that XP really isn't that bad afterall.....it just isn't idiot proof.

to me it's like domestic vs foreign cars. domestic cars really are just as good, you just gotta give em a little more TLC sometimes

[Seeker]

Good post on slashdot:

Is Vista in trouble? Why wouldn't it be? Even if Microsoft gave the thing away for free, it totally ignores the fact that there's an enormous cost [auckland.ac.nz] to upgrading. Microsoft doesn't need a fire sale, it needs to be paying people to install this thing.

Let's run down the usual suspects of people who upgrade and see how they feel:

* Business users hate it. The hardware required to run it cost a lot of money when multiplied by tens, hundreds, or thousands of employees. Add to that the training costs, the support costs, the deployment costs, and so on ad nauseum, and the business decision easily becomes a no-brainer. And for what? Beefed up "security" that causes your user base to go nuts answering "Allow or deny" dialog boxes?
* Gamers hate it. It just plain doesn't run with the hardware that's out right now. I really think that Vista is trying to be the proverbial egg that comes before widespread manufacturer support (the proverbial chicken), but it's just not happening. Every gamer I know is avoiding Vista like the plague. As long as gamers aren't begging for Vista support in their high-end components, manufacturers are still going to continue to be reluctant.
* Speaking of manufacturers, it's obvious that they hate it, too. When I tried Vista for a week a while back (not the beta, the so-called real version after launch), two things didn't work. My Creative SoundBlaster Live! card and my nVidia video card. To be fair, the latter technically worked, but some of its higher-end functionality didn't. We're not talking about little no-name manufacturers here or bizarre equipment, we're talking about common cards from major manufacturers. Have you even seen the hoops that hardware manufacturers have to jump through to comply with Vista's outrageous requirements?
* The emerging home entertainment market hates it. Let's not mince words: One of Vista's primary design goals is Digital Rights "Management," keeping these people from doing what they want to do. Why would buy software that takes functionality away!!?

I could go on, but you get the point. Is Vista in trouble? You bet. Add to all of the above the competition that it faces from various Linux distributions that are easier than ever to install and use, products like Mac OS, clever new projects such as ReactOS [reactos.org], and even its own predecessor! and it becomes clear that Microsoft should be praying that people pirate it, because that's the only way it's going to make any kind of splash when all is said and done.

Don't get me wrong, it won't die completely, any more than Windows ME is dead. But in the annals of operating systems, my money is that it will be merely a blip on the screen. If Microsoft is smart, it should be working on adding features to its operating system, making it faster and more powerful and easier to use. It should be fighting with us against DRM, not against us by crippling their software with it.

Personally, I think that Microsoft is not very smart, but who knows, I guess we'll see. At any rate, after giving it a week to try to convince me that it's not as bad as everyone says it is, I was very disappointed in it and won't be running it anytime in the forseeable future.

[zetec]

i stopped reading slashdot. 8 stories a day vs 1254254523523534 stories a day on Digg, all of which are the same stories (and they hit the web a helluva lot quicker on Digg)

[Seeker]

slashdot posts some stories that the digg bury brigade buries

i hated digg at first because of the dumbass name, but it's grown on me... but now my fondness of digg is starting to wear off

everything political gets buried while mac shit and omgwtflolbbq gets dugg

[zetec]

yeah, the digg mafia has a bit too slim of tastes nowadays, not to mention that you see shit that's older than the internet itself get reposted on a weekly basis.

[jwttu]

and why did they change the menus in office 2007, the ribbon is so confusing

[impala454]

* Business users hate it. The hardware required to run it cost a lot of money when multiplied by tens, hundreds, or thousands of employees. Add to that the training costs, the support costs, the deployment costs, and so on ad nauseum, and the business decision easily becomes a no-brainer.

most businesses don't upgrade, no matter how good the new upgrade is. business is all about cost, and "if it aint broke, don't fix it" is the tune that 99% of businesses out there operate on. it has nothing to do with vista itself.

Gamers hate it. It just plain doesn't run with the hardware that's out right now. I really think that Vista is trying to be the proverbial egg that comes before widespread manufacturer support (the proverbial chicken), but it's just not happening. Every gamer I know is avoiding Vista like the plague. As long as gamers aren't begging for Vista support in their high-end components, manufacturers are still going to continue to be reluctant.

believe it or not (slashdot), hard core gamers don't rule the home PC industry. and even in that small market, the manufacturers are scrambling to be the first to have DX10 supported hardware/drivers. they're loving it because in that hardcore market, they know people will ditch their old $500 video card to go get a new $500 DX10 card.

Speaking of manufacturers, it's obvious that they hate it, too. When I tried Vista for a week a while back (not the beta, the so-called real version after launch), two things didn't work. My Creative SoundBlaster Live! card and my nVidia video card. To be fair, the latter technically worked, but some of its higher-end functionality didn't. We're not talking about little no-name manufacturers here or bizarre equipment, we're talking about common cards from major manufacturers. Have you even seen the hoops that hardware manufacturers have to jump through to comply with Vista's outrageous requirements?

"when i tried vista for a week a while back". hmm.. i think it was a long while back, because its been several months since the problems with creative and nvidia were fixed (by those companies respectively). the "hoops" that hardware manufacturers have to jump through are new APIs for these devices, making the driver developers for these companies get off their ass and do some work for a change. It's been the hardware companies which have been slow to the punch. besides, what competing OS has better driver support? OSX with its four different computers it has to run on? Linux where you have to search high and low and compile shit and type 40 commands into a CLI to get your sound card to work?

* The emerging home entertainment market hates it. Let's not mince words: One of Vista's primary design goals is Digital Rights "Management," keeping these people from doing what they want to do. Why would buy software that takes functionality away!!?

every single person I know that has a home theater PC loves vista. the media center interface on it is slick as hell and a nice improvement over MCE2005 (although this one was nice too). I still don't understand what these people are bitching about with DRM. I had no problems whatsoever playing any media. I'd be interested to hear specific examples instead of just keeping on hearing "OMG i cant play my musix on vista!".

Personally, I think that Microsoft is not very smart

yeah... save for the fact that they're pretty much the most successful & profitable software company in existence.

[schwab]

anyone know if you can get office 07 from tech?

[impala454]

btw just a little tidbit, you can run office 2007 on xp (not sure if people knew that or not).

[Hartmann]

I have not used Vista past some of the original Longhorn previews so I can't discuss the issues but I think that we are seeing a huge move by consumers to drive the market, not vice-versa.

most businesses don't upgrade, no matter how good the new upgrade is. business is all about cost, and "if it aint broke, don't fix it" is the tune that 99% of businesses out there operate on. it has nothing to do with vista itself.

I agree that this is true for OS and system upgrades but for other software I think that it depends on what it is.

Options are great, this is where OS X, Linux, etc. are handy, if people don't want to use Windows, they don't have to. Microsoft is profitable but I think they are still struggling to figure out what their core business is going to be in 10-15 years. Sure the OS, but is that where they've made their money in the last few years? Not really.

Bill Gates is set, but I think that Microsoft, with one big failure, could end up not existing, no matter how much money they have. It takes a lot to support their operations and their stock is a good indicator of how people feel about them.

[impala454]

Options are great, this is where OS X, Linux, etc. are handy, if people don't want to use Windows, they don't have to.

in the consumer market perhaps, but even then you wont find the average consumer switching to OSX or linux. they wont take the time to learn it, or wont spend the money to buy a new mac. businesses definitely wont switch very often, for the reasons i stated above. "if it aint broke dont fix it". people wont invest the time and money required to teach all of their employees new systems. sure its easy for people like us to learn, but for people in non-technical jobs, its like trying to teach calculus to a monkey.

Microsoft is profitable but I think they are still struggling to figure out what their core business is going to be in 10-15 years. Sure the OS, but is that where they've made their money in the last few years? Not really.

yeah they make a lot of their money off office, which will take a lot to pry out of the business market. i'd imagine it would be difficult to make money off of any OS anyhow... as it's not something people run out and buy every day. their OS sales are a much higher percentage of OEM rather than off the shelf.

Bill Gates is set, but I think that Microsoft, with one big failure, could end up not existing, no matter how much money they have. It takes a lot to support their operations and their stock is a good indicator of how people feel about them.

I think it would take a lot more than one big failure to make the company "not exist". There are too many key products and customer loyalty for that to happen. And their stock... hasn't been higher in the past five years than it is right now.

[Seeker]

personally, everyone i know has been switching to os x instead of upgrading to vista

[Hartmann]

in the consumer market perhaps, but even then you wont find the average consumer switching to OSX or linux. they wont take the time to learn it, or wont spend the money to buy a new mac. businesses definitely wont switch very often, for the reasons i stated above. "if it aint broke dont fix it". people wont invest the time and money required to teach all of their employees new systems. sure its easy for people like us to learn, but for people in non-technical jobs, its like trying to teach calculus to a monkey.

I think the strides that Linux and OS X have taken in the last few years makes changing very, very easy. My girlfriend, who is somewhat computer-savvy figured out OS X in about 3 days. She figured out my Linux box in a week. Sure, she doesn't know every little thing, but she knows how to get around in the OS. My mom was able to use my Macbook Pro the first day I showed it to her, and she knows next to nothing about computers..

yeah they make a lot of their money off office, which will take a lot to pry out of the business market. i'd imagine it would be difficult to make money off of any OS anyhow... as it's not something people run out and buy every day. their OS sales are a much higher percentage of OEM rather than off the shelf.

I think that Office is a key staple for MS and some of the enterprise stuff for it is amazing, however, most companies don't upgrade for the reason you stated, so those features are never seen. If MS changed some of their licensing schemes I think that we'd see their continued sales increase. They seem to be thinking of Google as serious competition, which in reality, I don't think they are. The problem is that MS doesn't have a core business to protect, so they are trying to protect all fronts from a potential loss to Google. They need to focus and blow Google out of the water.

I think it would take a lot more than one big failure to make the company "not exist". There are too many key products and customer loyalty for that to happen. And their stock... hasn't been higher in the past five years than it is right now.

Well, I should have put small failures leading to a large failure. I know that their stock hasn't been higher and that's my point, people are pleased with them right now, but what happens if Vista doesn't take off in the next year? What if the adoption of Office 2007 isn't as widespread as predicted?

I am not disagreeing with you really at all, I just think that MS needs to refocus, they seem spread thin and it's wearing on them. Google is in the same boat IMO.


About what Lance just said, a few of my friends use OS X now, but what I think is interesting is the fact that UT has been slowly switching a lot of their labs to OS X with only a few PCs in them. Not really sure why they are doing it, just an observation my girlfriend made.

[Mommy]

Im interested in upgrading to Vista, but I dont want to run the risk of screwing up the install and reformatting my drives. Any tips? What would happen if I installed Vista on one drive and kept XP on the other. I really dont know anything at all about OS installs. Could I switch between the two OS's if I did this? Do I run the risk of losing my 140 gigs of music if I were to install Vista? My music is on the same drive as XP. So couldnt I just do the safe thing and install it on the other drive?