Virginia Tech Shootings, 33 dead, including shooter Options

[Hartmann]

Wow. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6560685.stm

The company I work for recruits heavily out of VT since the home office is located up the street in Roanoke. Really sad.

This post has been edited by jonathan83: Apr 20 2007, 05:11 PM

[Divergent Realit...]

and that is why moments like these make me seethe with misanthropy.

[James]

here

trouble within.

trouble without.

Why just his funeral?

[TetraGrammaton C...]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETpnHnK9Eis

we are the world -->> god hates the world

this is awesomely ridiculous

[pysex]

and please, please, stop calling the kid mentally ill.

thank you!

[jonathan83]

if you don't think he was mentally ill, then what? he just happened to make a bad decision?

I'm watching the news, listening to these anchors, psychoanalyzers, etc. talking about how "incoherent" his ramblings are at times, and this is from his wikipedia page...also reported by the media:

On December 13, 2005, Cho was temporarily involuntarily committed for a psychiatric assessment, as he was suspected to be mentally ill and a danger to himself or others by a Montgomery County, Virginia district court. Virginia Special Justice Paul Barnett certified in an order that Cho "[presented] an imminent danger to himself as a result of mental illness," and directed that as a "Court-ordered Out-Patient he follow all recommended treatments."

[False Dude]

of course the media is going to dig into that. hes not a terrorist so how can we explain this horrible thing?! lets call him mentally ill because we always seek reasons for tradegy because in our minds we know there arent always reasons and that makes us uncomfortable as people because then that means shit like this could happen to us. psych 101
he was "suspected" of being mentally ill. any "psychologist" who goes on fox or cnn can have their credibility pretty much ripped away.
people can be depressed, blame others for their depression. blame the rich kids, the bullies, christians. people commit a crime of passion (not a sign of mental illness) and have that boil over into wtf have i done ok this is what im going to do

- testm0

[jonathan83]

This tradgedy should not be made into a racial and/or immigration question. That is really all I am saying.

I think we all know this thread got sidetracked a few pages ago. Actually, I'm going to start splitting the immigration issues into a new thread.

edit: new thread on immigration here--> http://www.techsans.net/forums/index.php?s...c=3461&st=0

This post has been edited by jonathan83: Apr 21 2007, 10:10 AM

[Mommy]

i knew very few of you would understand or agree with what i was saying about Cho needing help. I dont think that most crimes can be justified with saying they are insane. I dont think the Columbine kids were really insane. I think that they had other issues. Here, in this case, I do really think that this guy was insane. I know I sympathize with the mentally ill more than most, but I think I have a pretty good understanding of all of that.

We didnt call the 9/11 attackers mentally ill. I dont think that the media had any weight in this at all. Seriously, that kid was fucked up in the head, and in my opinion it wasnt something that he could control. Im not saying that the world should have treated him nicer. We all get made fun of. Im not saying that he shouldnt have been locked up somewhere where they help the mentally ill. He should have. Society needs to step up, grow a backbone, and stop being so scared of protecting people's right. This kid had no right being on the streets in the condition he was in. The courts knew it. The teachers knew it. His fellow classmates knew it. When that many people are not wanting to be around someone because he takes pictures of girls, stalks people, talks to himself, etc then something needs to be done.

[False Dude]

I think this guy had every right being out on the streets. Just because you're mentally ill doesn't mean you should be put into an instituition. Being creepy, talking to yourself, taking pictures of girls and even stalking people is not reason enough in my mind to put him in an institution. Its reason enough to offer him help, but if he doesn't want to participate in counseling that's his choice.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9658210

This is an interview with Russ Federman, director of counseling at University of Virginia, on what counselors can do to prevent things like this. He says that there's only so much that counselors at a university can do. They could provide the option of counseling but its up to the student to participate. Until the student shows they are an imminent threat to other people there's not a lot they can do. He also says that things like this aren't always preventable. Human behavior isn't always predictable.


If that doctor released him as an outpatient she obviously didn't think he was that much of a threat to other people.

[False Dude]

so you think someone who premeditates the murder of 30 people, kills a couple, then casually goes to the post office, then kills 30 more and kills himself has no mental problems whatsoever? the term insane does not only mean that someone spontaneously loads up twelve guns and goes on a rambo style death march through an elementary school.

mentally ill? no
premeditation and being mentally ill do not go together. horrible gruesome murders, serial killings happen and most arent deemed mentally ill
casually? im willing to bet he wasnt skipping and singing christmas carols while was he doing this

this is just 1 example in this thread out of many others and 1 example of whats going on in public debate right now.
laypeople shouldnt discuss who or whats mentally ill. that gets dangerous and stupid.
watching the news for 20 minutes its obvious the media (not informed) are seeking justification for what happened. and mental illness debate is getting pulled into it. DANGEROUS
leave that to trained professional

- testm0

edit: you can call a person nuts and mentally crazy but that doesnt mean they are.
charles manson did what again? hes not mentally ill (considered to be sane by doctors, common people, and the court system)
if you are basing this kids mental state off what he did (that is whats going on) then how can this contradiction exist?
a man who beats his wife into a pulp in front of his kids - hes insane because thats so gross? ok put him in an institute till the doctors give him leave because hes no longer crazy! see the danger in that? im just trying to make a clear example of where this kind of thinking leads to.

another example. anyone calling the columbine kids mentally ill? if they were alive they should be back on the streets? why is this kid different? because hes asian? people think about why you are feeling this way

[pysex]

do you honestly think someone in mental trouble and anguish could write such a clear script for his video speech?

he used the word debaucheries....

crazy people don't say things like that

[Divergent Realit...]

do you honestly think someone in mental trouble and anguish could write such a clear script for his video speech?

he used the word debaucheries....

crazy people don't say things like that

roffles.

what do you know of insane?

[FORSAKENR320]

he used the word debaucheries....

crazy people don't say things like that

i disagree on the grounds that i distinctly remember an R&B song where a black man said the word "scrumptious"

[griseyeux]

another example. anyone calling the columbine kids mentally ill? if they were alive they should be back on the streets? why is this kid different? because hes asian? people think about why you are feeling this way

"if they were alive they should be back on the streets" sounds a bit weird, but I think I know what you mean. The main distinction in the VT case (and I may be wrong about this) is that the kid had actually been to a mental health facility because he said he wanted to kill himself and then, he was allowed to buy guns--no questions asked. As far as I know in the columbine case, the two had not been taken to a mental health facility. there's no doubt they were suicidal, but the only people they confessed that to were themselves and their diaries (manifestos) And there actually are and were a fair amount of people calling the columbine kids mentally disturbed.

[Testm0nkey]

wheres the facts behind the mental health institution? i havent heard anything about that and im willing to bet it wasnt a real institution but a holding tank for kids who say they want to kill themself. (if you say that to a physician they will put you in a hospital and observe you for a day or so).
that DEFINITELY does not equate to being mentally ill