Immigration issues (split from VT thread), guns, etc. Options

[cupcake]

after reading Inferia's well written arguments, I just now realized I am turning into an isolationist and not capable of an objective discourse over the subject of immigration anymore.

America was founded by immigrants. was...

We're no longer in the business of populating this country and building it up...we need to be in the business of protecting it (not just defensively, but culturally as well).

god did I just write that?

circle the damn wagons...

[John6.7]

You guys have weird views towards legal permanent residents.

Alex: What does "practice u.s. rights" mean?

[zetec]

You guys have weird views towards legal permanent residents.

Alex: What does "practice u.s. rights" mean?

he's saying that people who aren't citizens shouldn't be allowed to speak/write, not be a slave, not have to have their houses quartered, etc etc

[pysex]

You guys have weird views towards legal permanent residents.

Alex: What does "practice u.s. rights" mean?

exactly as it sounds

i'm tired of america being used as the world's playground...if aliens want the freedoms that we have then they should become citizens...


or...make a different set of rights for legal aliens (obviously more restrictive)


deport and exile all illegal residents

[John6.7]

exactly as it sounds

i'm tired of america being used as the world's playground...if aliens want the freedoms that we have then they should become citizens...
or...make a different set of rights for legal aliens (obviously more restrictive)
deport and exile all illegal residents

I guess citizens and residents can't be friends then, right?

[pysex]

I guess citizens and residents can't be friends then, right?

i'm sorry if it's pissing you off

but understand i'm really angry that a foreigner can buy guns

i didn't know that right was available to legal aliens....it's like nothing is ever exclusive to americans anymore...

people want to extend rights to some fucking jihadder in a prison camp

[TetraGrammaton C...]

wow, i cannot believe the amount of bigotry and xenophobia here.

i think in regard to this particular issue, race is merely a characteristic. it has no causal effect on the argument and is not really worthy of discussion in relation to this particular violent act.

much like in drug dealings, making the purchasing of firearms illegal to one group or another only stimulates the black market economy.

this country is founded on equal rights. there is no allowance for half-citizenship or super-citizenship. an establishment of any sort of enforced social hierarchy would cause indescribable conflict.

This post has been edited by TetraGrammaton Cleric: Apr 20 2007, 03:01 AM

[koreanp1e]

no wonder west texas blows. racist moterfucking idiots live here.
they think foreigners are different species who shouldn't have a right to protect themselves against thieves and robbers by bearing arms just because they live in a different landscape.

what kind of twisted non-sensical logic is that ?

I am glad I am out of this shit hole.

[GOB]

no wonder west texas blows. racist moterfucking idiots live here.
they think foreigners are different species who shouldn't have a right to protect themselves against thieves and robbers by bearing arms just because they live in a different landscape.

what kind of twisted non-sensical logic is that ?

I am glad I am out of this shit hole.

and you foreigners think that everyone is out to get you. different species? this is why you come off as weirdos, creating your own members-only colonies, scoffing at american laws and just general regional normality (oddly, though, this is all going on while you're taking complete advantage of our liberal laws and free market systems). i have no problem with immigration as long as it leads to a reasonably quick (and total) assimilation. when you act that way, when you shut out everyone who isn't the exact same as you, you are the different species. most of the people on here aren't even from west texas-- you generalizing about texas tech students is as ignorant as a white guy saying you all look alike.

aww, international students get the short end of the stick. maybe making the effort to extend out from your comfort zone to meet some white and black people would soften the cultural barriers... but nobody does that in college. that takes too much work, and chances are, somebody might end up still not liking you. the horror!

non-citizens most certainly DO NOT deserve the same rights as natural born americans without a hell of a lot of earned trust. they're guests in our country, and they should act as such. how are we supposed to trust immigrants when they are so vocal about how they do not trust us? they don't trust the police, the politicians, the teachers. what kind of nonsensical fantasy logic is that?

funny how i can't go into a chinese or mexican grocery store without being treated like i'm the immigrant, but anytime "you people" feel threatened (or if i can't assist somebody in spanish), there's a public outcry about how this is the most violent and racist country.

hell, maybe a bilingual america is a good thing. it would force anyone who speaks neither english nor spanish to get their shit together or get out.

edit: i realize that this has strayed pretty far from the original topic, but give me a break.

[impala454]

if someone comes here legally, they deserve all the rights we afford here. including buying guns.

you guys arguing against this... what are you gonna do? take away every single legal immigrant's guns because one guy who had been here for 14 years went nuts? I don't think you see the irony. You're rationalizing your idea in exactly the same way the gun control advocates do to say you(the US citizen) should have your guns taken away too. just be careful what you wish for, you could get more than you ask for

[Inferia]

Actually I disagree with that. Now, with many "criminals" you're right. they will find ways.

But Cho Seung-Hui was a loner with NO friends and no social skills at all. I think if he was denied a gun legally, he wouldn't have got the guns. I don't see this guy going through gangs or criminals to get them. How would he? He didnt know anybody, and you have to know certain (bad) people to get into that stuff.

Actually, I disagree with that too. So what if he had no friends, so what if he had no social skills. The guy doesn't need to go to gangs or criminals to get the guns. All he need to go through is the United States government. If the only thing that stood between him and what he wants is citizenship? The fucker will get it his citizenship. From the pro-gun point of view, guns don't kill people, people kill people, it won't do jack shit taking away permanent resident's rights of owning a gun, they will find a way.

The irony here is that personally I am against private ownership of guns, but dude, taking away our right of owning a gun isn't going to do much in terms of violence involving guns. Also, it's kinda shitty to take our rights away just on the bases that we're "foreign". Sometimes, I don't even know if this country is still an immigrant nation anymore. You sure as hell don't make it easy on us who are trying to become citizens of this country. I find it funny that the US still try to sell this "American Dream" business to everyone else in the world, that America is SO great, that by coming here, all your dreams are possible. When you do get here, all they really want to do is kick you out and well, think you shouldn't be here because you're taking away from "actual" Americans. Where is the dream there? And if you don't want immigrants here, perhaps America should try to sell themselves off a little differently. Like try, this country sucks, we'll take your rights away because you are foreign, so you really don't want to come here. This way not only do you preseve your American way of life, you also reduce job competition. Let's see how well this goes.

[cupcake]

preface...this is no longer about the shooter, but I think we can agree this has evolved into an entirely different dialogue...

wow, i cannot believe the amount of bigotry and xenophobia here.

bigotry? I don't think anyone who's expressed themselves here is prejudiced or intolerant. It's on a different level than that.

this country is founded on equal rights. there is no allowance for half-citizenship or super-citizenship. an establishment of any sort of enforced social hierarchy would cause indescribable conflict.

just for giggles...try

I've traveled extensively for the past 13 years and have been to every continent except antarctica...yet have I found another country that affords noncitizens the amount of rights as america.

the bill of rights applies to americans. residents are not americans...they are guests.

the way I see it, they are convoluting OUR society and we're having to change OUR culture to pacify them and check some PC box, lest offending someone. but they aren't even onboard enough to become americans. I mean at least have a vested interest in something if you want to change it.

are you telling me that if you rented a room in your house to some dude, you'd change what you do just to pacify him (say he's a strict nondrinker and you like to have wine at dinner...yet that offends him)...you'd just rid the house of your vast collection? or if she is a vegan, you'd quit drinking milk and eating normally?

hell no you wouldn't.

sorry but that indescribable effect you mention is what's going to happen if we keep rolling along this way. the only way to keep america "american" is to quit being the world's bitches and police. the rest of the world keeps america's balls in a jar on their mantle...

I wasn't born of this mindset, and it didn't occur overnight. it's a realization I am slowly (and with much reservation and guilt) coming to as time goes on.

[cupcake]

Actually, I disagree with that too. So what if he had no friends, so what if he had no social skills. The guy doesn't need to go to gangs or criminals to get the guns. All he need to go through is the United States government. If the only thing that stood between him and what he wants is citizenship? The fucker will get it his citizenship. From the pro-gun point of view, guns don't kill people, people kill people, it won't do jack shit taking away permanent resident's rights of owning a gun, they will find a way.

The irony here is that personally I am against private ownership of guns, but dude, taking away our right of owning a gun isn't going to do much in terms of violence involving guns. Also, it's kinda shitty to take our rights away just on the bases that we're "foreign". Sometimes, I don't even know if this country is still an immigrant nation anymore. You sure as hell don't make it easy on us who are trying to become citizens of this country. I find it funny that the US still try to sell this "American Dream" business to everyone else in the world, that America is SO great, that by coming here, all your dreams are possible. When you do get here, all they really want to do is kick you out and well, think you shouldn't be here because you're taking away from "actual" Americans. Where is the dream there?

I truly am sorry, but the american dream is gone. we have enough americans. we have our culture. you missed that boat by a hundred years.

I don't think the US is still trying to sell shit to anyone overseas. products maybe, but definitely not a call to the free world like it once was.

[pysex]

if someone comes here legally, they deserve all the rights we afford here. including buying guns.

you guys arguing against this... what are you gonna do? take away every single legal immigrant's guns because one guy who had been here for 14 years went nuts? I don't think you see the irony. You're rationalizing your idea in exactly the same way the gun control advocates do to say you(the US citizen) should have your guns taken away too. just be careful what you wish for, you could get more than you ask for

i really don't like the idea that someone can come from another country with a visa and then arm themselves


and everyone keeps saying this dude went nuts....i think his actions were calculated
he was conscious of his actions and i wish people would stop making excuses for what he did


and how is denying gun purchasing to non citizens going to affect gun purchasing for citizens?

[pysex]

no wonder west texas blows. racist moterfucking idiots live here.
they think foreigners are different species who shouldn't have a right to protect themselves against thieves and robbers by bearing arms just because they live in a different landscape.

what kind of twisted non-sensical logic is that ?

I am glad I am out of this shit hole.

If you think like that then I'm glad you're gone too.

I don't understand the logic in someone who wants to live here for 30 years and never become a citizen...but wants everything we have to offer. I don't think someone who's here on a temporary basis needs to be buying guns.