Wal-Mart suffers a blow... Options

[pysex]

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/28/business...nyt&emc=rss

Frustrated by a bruising, and so far unsuccessful battle to open its first discount store in the nation’s largest city, Wal-Mart’s chief executive said yesterday, “I don’t care if we are ever here.”

H. Lee Scott Jr., the chief executive of the nation’s largest retailer, said that trying to conduct business in New York was so expensive — and exasperating — that “I don’t think it’s worth the effort.”

Mr. Scott’s remarks, delivered at a meeting with editors and reporters of The New York Times, amounted to a surprising admission of defeat, given the company’s vigorous efforts to crack into urban markets and expand beyond its suburban base in much of the country. In recent years, Wal-Mart has encountered stout resistance to its plans to enter America’s bigger cities, which stand as its last domestic frontier.

Much of the opposition to Wal-Mart in cities like New York is led by unions. Organized labor, fearing that the retailer’s low prices and modest wages will undercut unionized stores, have built anti-Wal-Mart alliances with Democratic members of city councils.

Yesterday, labor leaders, upon learning of Wal-Mart’s apparent retreat from New York — or at the very least Manhattan — returned Mr. Scott’s sentiment.

“We don’t care if they’re never here,” said Ed Ott, executive director of the New York City Central Labor Council. “We don’t miss them. We have great supermarkets and great retail outlets in New York. We don’t need Wal-Mart.”

For Wal-Mart, New York City has long loomed as a tantalizing prize — the home of more than eight million consumers and attention-grabbing stores for just about every major retailer in the country.

But Wal-Mart, a cost-minded retailer known for its dowdy merchandise, and New York, a city of excesses known for cutting-edge style, have long had an uneasy relationship.

Wal-Mart executives have argued that low prices would be the universal language that bridged the gap. So far, they have not.

During the questioning, Mr. Scott repeatedly referred to New York, but after the meeting a Wal-Mart spokeswoman, Mona Williams, called to say that Mr. Scott was referring to only Manhattan, not the entire city.

Wal-Mart, which has nearly 4,000 stores in the United States, has sought to open stores in Rego Park, Queens, and in Staten Island, but both plans fell through in the face of intense union, community and political opposition.

Mr. Scott said yesterday that the opposition to Wal-Mart in New York, Chicago, Cleveland, Los Angeles and other cities had a common thread: “The glue is the unions.”

Despite setbacks in each of these cities, Wal-Mart has had success in urban areas. In Chicago, for example, Wal-Mart opened a store last year that attracted thousands of job applicants and has, Mr. Scott said, performed better than expected.

He said that Wal-Mart executives have lobbied for a store in New York, but he said he remains unconvinced. “It’s too hard to make money here,” he said.

Late yesterday, Ms. Williams sought to amend Mr. Scott’s remarks.

“Entering New York has been difficult, but not something we rule out,” she said in an interview. “Lee said he personally didn’t care if we built stores there or not. It might be more trouble than it’s worth, but that he would leave that up to the real estate group that makes these decisions.”

As he does in many public appearances, Mr. Scott was quick yesterday to talk up the chief potential benefit of a Wal-Mart in New York City, particularly for its many struggling residents with modest incomes: lower prices because of the chain’s vast purchasing power and highly efficient distribution system.

Surveys have repeatedly shown that Wal-Mart’s grocery prices are typically 10 to 30 percent lower than those of its competitors.

But labor leaders assert that while Wal-Mart’s prices are low, its wages and health benefits are often so skimpy that they leave many workers below the poverty line and pressure competitors to reduce pay and benefits.

“We don’t like how they do business,” Mr. Ott, the New York union official, said.

But as Mr. Scott sees it, there is another reason Wal-Mart has such a hard time making inroads into some of the nation’s biggest enclaves. Speaking about what he sees as snobbish elites in New York and across the country, Mr. Scott added, “You have people who are just better than us and don’t want a Wal-Mart in their community.”

[GOB]

unions can go to hell

heil wal-mart

[Mommy]

how do college students in NYC survive?

[Seeker]

yes! unions can do good

[impala454]

fine by me... let them new yorkers keep payin $8 for a gallon of milk

[pysex]

how do college students in NYC survive?

there are probably other local stores that offer competitive prices....or maybe regular chain grocery stores which are average priced


or college students in new york are just really rich and buy versache milk

[griseyeux]

there are probably other local stores that offer competitive prices....or maybe regular chain grocery stores which are average priced
or college students in new york are just really rich and buy versache milk

*versace

no, they buy the same stuff as us but they pay 2-3 dollars more. I've asked Mike about shopping there he said it blows. They do have targets though.

[FORSAKENR320]

how do college students in NYC survive?

new yorkers don't go to college.... they all live in ghetto's and die before they are 22 in gang wars

[cupcake]

I was an undergraduate student at NYU and lived in manhattan. I'lll try to illustrate the kind of shit college kids do.

how do you survive? If you are paying your own way like I have my whole life...roughly...really rough. MOST students at NYU are rich kids. if you have enough money, you have no problems. and I'd wager 95% of those kids had no problems like how am I going to afford milk?

when we middle classers think rich kid, we're wrong. the kids there are much richer across the board than any school in texas I'll tell you that right now. I'd bet my life on it. No I wasn't the only texan there...in fact most people at NYU are not new yorkers...they are from all across the globe. but they are all rich...yes.

before we even get into cost of living let's look at the expenses up front...in 1997 it was $15,000 a semester tuition. in university housing rent was $1275 a month. meal plan $$ I cannot remember, but I mine was 2 meals a day at the chowhalls. they were like going to a restaurant...so I'd wager much more pricey than at tech.

so ok...all those expenses and two meals a day were covered by my scholarship and what's left over was student loans. it was a good $25-30 grand a semester ...I really don't know the specifics because the financial aid office there did pretty much everything for you. Like I didn't have a computer...so they "gave" me an allowance for a laptop.

so now that tuition, some meals, and rent are covered by scholarships and loans, what is left is daily living.

I had the GI beer fund which was $550 monthly at the time, and also had a job at a snowboard shop working about 20 hours a week.

at the base of one of the trade towers, there was this kind of walmart store called Century 21 (weird huh? like the realtor, but not even remotely related). they had coffee makers and pillows and shit you need to buy in order to live, because you sure as hell aren't moving that stuff up there. you're not driving your prelude from amarillo...and you're not taking that shit on the plane. it was the only thing remotely like a walmart back then. now new york has target, so that's cool.

so where the fuck do you buy groceries? after living there several years, man I'd still like to know that!!!!!!!!! yeah they have groceries, but they are through the roof richie ass delis with kosher milk or some falafels and shit...

when you do manage to find a decent deli/market, you can only buy so much, because your black ass is schlepping it on the subway back to your apt. I'm a strong dude and more than four plastic sacks get heavy after humping all over that island.

I lived like a bloody butthole. other kids are all out hitting up manhattan nightlife...I instead had to figure out shit to do for free.

people talk about how new york is not the place to be poor...but I disagree. if you wanna shop and eat out all the time, yeah it would suck. but I would rather be poor in NYC than in LBK. at least there is culture and rad museums and history and shit.

I experienced two lives in NY. my gangraped asshole life, and the life of my jewish girlfriend. it was through her that I saw how the normal students actually did shit.

To answer jessica's question in a REALLY long-winded way...college kids in new york don't need walmart to survive. they order their groceries delivered by the already expensive ass deli/groceries. they buy their home shit at anthropologie or places like that. they get their clothes at rad manhattan stores.

in general...manhattan does not need nor want walmart.

[pysex]

well thanks for reaffirming my desire to never live in new york city...

i would prefer to have open space and air and cheaper living than museums, history, and artsy fartsy...


if i became a billionaire sometime later in life...i might try it out


and although i dislike walmart as much as the other guy...it's still very much useful when you need that certain something that costs 20 dollars more anywhere else...

*versace

shows you how much i care about that poo poo

[griseyeux]

although i dislike walmart as much as the other guy...it's still very much useful when you need that certain something that costs 20 dollars more anywhere else...
shows you how much i care about that poo poo

are you referring to tranny prostitutes? because you're right they are much cheaper at wal-mart.

[impala454]

damn... nice little insight there... never really wanted to live in new york. i bet that $1275 a month was for like 400 sq ft or something wasnt it? wouldn't mind visiting though.

[cupcake]

pysex, I'm an outdoors guy too. but the energy of that city is worth everyone living there for at least 6 months I'd say. I came straight to LBK(where I lived from birth til I was 11) from NY and didn't realize how much I missed the simplicity of it all. now, after living in san diego, nyc, and dallas I can and do honestly say I would rather live in west texas than any place I've ever visited or lived.

impala, that was for half the rent of luxury 1 bedroom apt downtown. the school assigned you a roomate like at normal schools, and it was up to y'all who decided got the large bedroom and who got the living room; both had their pros/cons. it really was quite a deal considering how expensive housing is there.

however dorm space itself is limited to 18yr old freshmen "on campus" (washington sq park in grenwich village). so anyone older than that got univeristy subsidized housing. the school basically had their own floors in buildings throughout the island.

for shits and giggles I found it online...obviously it's gone up in price over the past 8-10 years...but at $4800-$5800, I didnt think it would double?!

the exchange

[Hartmann]

It sounds like I would much prefer Boston to NYC. I had similar questions about where people bought groceries and stuff when I was in Boston so my girlfriend and I kept our eyes open for grocery stores, delis, etc.

We saw two grocery stores in downtown Boston as well as three, yes, three CVSs. We didn't see a Wal-Mart or Target but there were more Dunkin' Donuts than Starbucks. They were everywhere, at the Subway, on every corner, in the schools...

I imagine NYC is more expensive than Boston but I made it a point to go to Beacon Hill (the rich area), the North End (think little Italy, but don't call it that), and Southie (lower class, some projects). Beacon Hill is $5 million 2 bedroom condos, the North End is affordable ($1500 for a large 2 bedroom), and Southie is just what you see in the movies, row houses with people on their front porches.

I saw a ton of people on the T carrying groceries. There seems to be a huge uproar there about the price of the subway... Boston has the oldest subway system in the U.S., it doesn't reach everywhere, and it's old yet they pay more than NYC citizens (who have a better subway system).

[cupcake]

man I love boston. what a rad city. it's the kind of place that you just feel smarter being there...if that makes any sense?

when I was in NY one of my buddies was in school in cambridge so I'd head down to visit him and vice-versa.

first time I arrived there after living in NY for 6 months I was flabbergasted at how nice boston was. like NY is...well NY. cross between "taxi driver" and "sex in the city". but boston, man the T was clean and nice!! and you could actually see the sky.

but where he lived it was just as pricey as where I was. the difference being the style in which they lived. it was in those 4 story, skinny flats with access to each floor and a very communal/open feel as opposed to my "Jeffersons" style with the doorman, locked doors, deal.

there were like 8 people living in that thing and they all shared a kitchen on I think the 2nd floor. it was odd to me.

NYU only leased one floor at our apt...so the rest were these super uptight wall st. types. So imagine Joe Banker's consternation every morning as he heads to work...when he gets on his millionaire elevator with the elevator dude (I don't know why there's a dude in a semi military uniform to push the button for your floor, but whatever)...and he sees my dumbass living in his high rise. I relished the looks on their faces. They'd all thought they'd "made it"...and here's some crappy college kid from texas.

also, cambridge is populated with a bunch of eccentric brainiac weirdos, whereas I was in school with princes and long island mob daughters and shit.