new toy Options

[THECHICKEN]

All the pesticides which are required to grow the massive crops we have today are made from petro. No petro, crops get smaller, less fuel, more demand... diminishing returns.

Largely oil is used to create a lot of the alternative fuels, its just that we hope the alternatives will be able to work on their own before oil can't be used to help them get established. Right now oil is running out faster than alternatives are being built.

meh

[impala454]

i'd imagine the amount of oil used to produce fertilizer is infinitesimal
compared to what we consume as fuel.

[Dogmeat]

didn't we go through this a long time ago?

it still sounds just as stupid this time too.

and again: the point of ethanol isn't that it's cleaner or more efficient (although it is cleaner). the point of it is that it's renewable. you can grow a new field of corn, you can't grow a new oil reserve.

Exactly, and if you're going to fucking power hundreds of millions of vehicles with corn essentially, you're going to have to fucking turn every square inch of this country into a corn field. And then, you're going to burn even MORE diesel to harvest and produce it, unless you can do the whole "biodiesel" thing ... which from what I can tell is still not that viable. It isn't a far stretch to question this at all, it's the same damned thing as thinking you're going to save the world by burning more coal to produce hydrogen.

Try again.

[impala454]

i think you mistake me for someone who gives a shit about the planet. i grew up around big blocks and big carbs. i just don't think you'd get to a situation where you'd burn more fuel than the fuel than fuel you create. if we did, we wouldn't farm much of anything. and there are entire countries converted over to ethanol already.

i don't really know how much fuel a farm machine burns vs crops it harvests, but apparently you do. so tell us, how much diesel fuel = how much corn? and how much corn = how much ethanol?

here let me answer that question for ya
http://www.e85fuel.com/e85101/faqs/energy.php

[Mommy]

i think you mistake me for someone who gives a shit about the planet.

Im starting to like Impala. He makes me giggle.

[THECHICKEN]

i think you mistake me for someone who gives a shit about the planet. i grew up around big blocks and big carbs. i just don't think you'd get to a situation where you'd burn more fuel than the fuel than fuel you create. if we did, we wouldn't farm much of anything. and there are entire countries converted over to ethanol already.

i don't really know how much fuel a farm machine burns vs crops it harvests, but apparently you do. so tell us, how much diesel fuel = how much corn? and how much corn = how much ethanol?

here let me answer that question for ya
http://www.e85fuel.com/e85101/faqs/energy.php

As far as i know there is ONE country fully converted to ethanol. However, even if smaller countries can do it, that doesn't convert to america being able to do it. Most other countries aren't as large and distanced as america. Because of this other countries also have mass transit systems (that just aren't present in the United States.)

So right now, us and the rest of the planet are pouring through the petro in the world. As of right now there is no other viable alternative fuel that can come in and take over that same role as petro. We just don't have the system in place right now to farm that much ethanol. Plus by the time we get it in place petro may have reached to high a price, meaning that all the petro used to make pesticides for these super crops will be much more expensive, or non feasible.

Ethanol is ok and all, it just doesn't seem to be the answer for the U.S. because of the sheer size of our country. But then again, no other alternative fuel is viable either, so meh.

What's awesome is the fact that you can take frying grease, filter it, and use it in a deisel engine... or at least thats what myth busters would have me believe.

[impala454]

yeah, you ever watch the show Trucks! on spiketv? that guy did a show on biodiesel a few years ago. they say the exhaust actually smells like the food fryer it came from

on a side note, that guy stacey was a badass, those dipshits they replaced him with turned the show to shit

[Dogmeat]

Current research prepared by Argonne National Laboratory (a U.S. Department of Energy Laboratory), indicates a 38% gain in the overall energy input/output equation for the corn-to-ethanol process. That is, if 100 BTUs of energy is used to plant corn, harvest the crop, transport it, etc., 138 BTUs of energy is available in the fuel ethanol. Corn yields and processing technologies have improved significantly over the past 20 years and they continue to do so, making ethanol production less and less energy intensive.

Anyone else see a problem with this statement? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm....

[Spectatrix]

They're not talking about a closed thermodynamic system, so no, I don't see a problem with that statement. In an open system, you can easily have energy out > energy in.

This post has been edited by Spectatrix: Mar 12 2007, 08:25 AM

[impala454]

right, there's also energy from the sun, nutrients from the soil, etc, to actually grow the crop.

[Mommy]

I hit a pole at a parking garage today. Its baaaad.

[impala454]

with your new truck!??! shit girl that sucks

[Divergent Realit...]

As far as i know there is ONE country fully converted to ethanol. However, even if smaller countries can do it, that doesn't convert to america being able to do it. Most other countries aren't as large and distanced as america. Because of this other countries also have mass transit systems (that just aren't present in the United States.)

So right now, us and the rest of the planet are pouring through the petro in the world. As of right now there is no other viable alternative fuel that can come in and take over that same role as petro. We just don't have the system in place right now to farm that much ethanol. Plus by the time we get it in place petro may have reached to high a price, meaning that all the petro used to make pesticides for these super crops will be much more expensive, or non feasible.

Ethanol is ok and all, it just doesn't seem to be the answer for the U.S. because of the sheer size of our country. But then again, no other alternative fuel is viable either, so meh.

What's awesome is the fact that you can take frying grease, filter it, and use it in a deisel engine... or at least thats what myth busters would have me believe.

also did that on dirty jobs. but the guy refined the grease.

[GOB]

I hit a pole at a parking garage today. Its baaaad.

HAHA

no way was this in the new truck. if so, that's shitty. i'm guessing it's also raining down there, so the garage floor is probably super slippery?

[chook]

They're not talking about a closed thermodynamic system, so no, I don't see a problem with that statement. In an open system, you can easily have energy out > energy in.

Yep, with the majority of that energy coming from the sun.