State of the Union, or the response... Options

[Hartmann]

The State of the Union was, in my opinion, a wakeup call for the democrats. Either support the troop movement or get the troops out of there, the middle ground is not an option. Also, I thought the President's point about a civilian force of workers was interesting. I do not know if I support it or not, but it's a novel idea...

Jim Webb's "official" Democratic response was even more intriguing, especially this paragraph:

The majority of the nation no longer supports the way this war is being fought; nor does the majority of our military. We need a new direction. Not one step back from the war against international terrorism. Not a precipitous withdrawal that ignores the possibility of further chaos. But an immediate shift toward strong regionally-based diplomacy, a policy that takes our soldiers off the streets of Iraq's cities, and a formula that will in short order allow our combat forces to leave Iraq.

In the same paragraph he contradicts himself...

Not a precipitous withdrawal that ignores the possibility of further chaos.

...a policy that takes our soldiers off the streets of Iraq's cities, and a formula that will in short order allow our combat forces to leave Iraq.

Then there is this sentence (from the same paragraph), important part emphasized:

The majority of the nation no longer supports the way this war is being fought; nor does the majority of our military.

I'd like to know where he gets his statistics...

[impala454]

well here's the deal... whether you support them staying or want to pull them all out now, it doesn't matter what the american people think. military strategy and troop deployment is not a concern of the general population. we have indirect power as citizens to affect the initial declaration of war, as our elected officials are the ones making the decisions, but once a war is out there, we have absolutely no say in how a war is fought. i wouldn't want it any other way.

the military that's over there say they need more troops, so get them some more fucking troops, i mean shit.. how difficult is that of a request? if they need more ammunition and humvees are we going to come down to a fucking democrat speech against it every fucking time?

[cmac]

military strategy and troop deployment is not a concern of the general population.

it is of concern when fathers and mothers are losing sons and daughters and sons and daughters are losing fathers and mothers.

[Jim]

well here's the deal... whether you support them staying or want to pull them all out now, it doesn't matter what the american people think. military strategy and troop deployment is not a concern of the general population. we have indirect power as citizens to affect the initial declaration of war, as our elected officials are the ones making the decisions, but once a war is out there, we have absolutely no say in how a war is fought. i wouldn't want it any other way.

the military that's over there say they need more troops, so get them some more fucking troops, i mean shit.. how difficult is that of a request? if they need more ammunition and humvees are we going to come down to a fucking democrat speech against it every fucking time?

ROFLOCTOPUS

[cupcake]

Jim...do you think you, or any of us, are qualified to orchestrate a war? Do you have the resources and training to make informed strategic decisions with global implications?

no.

we may have "concern", I personally have great concern that you will never be able to imagine...but we certainly don't have a say.

nor should we. it is not our lot. ours is to elect officials we have faith and confidence in. have a problem with politicians? yeah me too, but it's better than joe videogame watching CNN then saying, alright, we need to move the 3rd ID into Sadr city and...

do you disagree?

[Seeker]

here's a good blog with interesting points on policies bush discussed during the speech

http://www.gregpalast.com/off-the-rails-bi...e-of-the-union/

[Hartmann]

here's a good blog with interesting points on policies bush discussed during the speech

http://www.gregpalast.com/off-the-rails-bi...e-of-the-union/

I believe the sentence should have read:

here's a lefty blog...

He brings up some interesting stuff, but I disagree that the immigration stuff is going to be a profile database. Who knows what the tools are going to be. Does this guy have some magical wand that gives him the ability to see the mind of Bush?

His point about the SPR is moot as well. Oil is not released from that source unless it is necessary in the time of a crisis. High oil prices are not a crisis, especially when the rest of the world is paying near double. So what he's suggesting is depleting the SPR so that you can save $.50 on a gallon of gas... yeah, that's smart.

[Jim]

Jim...do you think you, or any of us, are qualified to orchestrate a war? Do you have the resources and training to make informed strategic decisions with global implications?

no.

we may have "concern", I personally have great concern that you will never be able to imagine...but we certainly don't have a say.

nor should we. it is not our lot. ours is to elect officials we have faith and confidence in. have a problem with politicians? yeah me too, but it's better than joe videogame watching CNN then saying, alright, we need to move the 3rd ID into Sadr city and...

do you disagree?

I've heard some pretty stupid things in my life... but this takes the cake.


You're right. I don't have the resources or training to "make informed strategic decisions with global implications". That doesn't mean that I can't express my concerns or thoughts or anything like that. Just because I don't have the "background" of a war vet, a military strategist, or an adviser of any type doesn't mean I have to take my opinion out of it.

But what do I know, I'm just Joe Videogame watching CNN saying, "Wow, I think this war is bullshit and was started for bullshit reasons and hasn't ended for even more bullshit reasons." Let's send more troops in. It doesn't concern America I mean, it's not like people don't want to go over there... or is it...

I may not be the most informed nor am I the smartest, but I do smell BS pretty well. And this war (or whatever you want to call it), to me, is one of the biggest pieces of BS my nose has ever caught wind of.

[cupcake]

I've heard some pretty stupid things in my life... but this takes the cake.

well, at least you kept it refined and erudite...

honestly, you seem like a bright guy, but after that last post, I really question your reading comprehension...

That doesn't mean that I can't express my concerns or thoughts or anything like that. Just because I don't have the "background" of a war vet, a military strategist, or an adviser of any type doesn't mean I have to take my opinion out of it.

where did I say that you couldn't have an opinion? where are you getting that? this isn't NK...you're reading something into nothing.

your rotflwhatever shit was directed at a post where the guy said americans can't direct the war. you can't. bitch all you want...but you will never ever be in a position to make those kinds of decisions. nor will I.

the war is some BS, IMO. never been an argument from me there.

but to think you should have a flippin say about how troops are managed...THAT is stupidity.

you and most people in the country are not qualified to direct traffic...much less a war.

[FORSAKENR320]

don't question his authority.





he's a professional WoW administrator

[impala454]

it is of concern when fathers and mothers are losing sons and daughters and sons and daughters are losing fathers and mothers.

why? if fathers/mothers/sons/daughters/etc had concerns about their family being killed in war, maybe they shouldn't have let them sign up for the MILITARY

[The Fanatic]

[The Fanatic]

why? if fathers/mothers/sons/daughters/etc had concerns about their family being killed in war, maybe they shouldn't have let them sign up for the MILITARY

Since when did parents have authority over their adult children? Some people, like my cousin, join the military because they have not other options in their life (she is currently in Iraq). Maybe YOU should not be an insensitive dick.

[impala454]

Since when did parents have authority over their adult children? Some people, like my cousin, join the military because they have not other options in their life (she is currently in Iraq). Maybe YOU should not be an insensitive dick.

They don't have legal authority, but in general a kid asks his parents before he joins the military. And your cousin had plenty of options, don't give me that bullshit. Did he just decide one day... "hmm I have to either commit suicide or join the army"?

It's so funny to me how people want to go to the military, reap the benefits, and then cry when they have to go to war. And honestly it's not even the troops that complain, they know their job. It's parents & democrats sitting around crying about it. It's the fuckin military people, their JOB is to go fight fuckin wars and follow the orders given to them. not sit around and collect paychecks at taxpayers expense. And before you go off on this tangent, no I'm not saying we should go out and seek war just to give our military something to do.

Let me ask all you military geniuses this:
You have a war going on, and military commanders are requesting more troops. Your options are:
1) Send the troops they requested (give your reason)
2) Don't send the troops they requested (give your reason)

your options don't include: "Just stop the war and everyone pull out", or "zomgroflhelicopteri'madipshit this war shouldn't have started in the first place"

also, give the reason you believe this choice should be in the hands of a bunch of senators, or why anyone other than our supreme military commanders should even have a say (the way wars have always been fought). sure you can have your opinion, but explain your opinion, and how having high ranking congress members coming out against military decisions helps anyone.

[The Fanatic]

One, don't assume my family situations, ass.
Two, if you could read, you would realize my cousin is a female. sexist ass hole


Here is the big one. Children ARE going to talk to their parents before they join the military. When the kids still decide to join, does that mean that parents should not be concerned about their family?? That is fucking bullshit. My cousin, nor my uncle, have ever complained about the war. All my uncle wants is for my cousin to come home safe and sound. Hell I am concerned for anyone that I know that does work which could put them in harms way. If you had a family member who was a cop would you say the same thing? "well I am not concerned for his safety because he was the dumb asshole that joined the police force!"

This post has been edited by Dr. Gonzo: Jan 24 2007, 12:53 PM