Democratic agenda Options

[jwttu]

Pelosi started off her agenda today by banning smoking in part of the Capitol

[impala454]

But please stop saying as your argument it will increase unemployment. As there is not any hard correlation to indicate so.

here's a pretty interesting article:
http://www.courierpress.com/news/2007/jan/...-have-negative/

The last major increase in the minimum wage was in 1996. After the increase, a survey of 1,000 restaurants by the National Restaurant Association concluded that more than 146,000 jobs were eliminated because of increased labor costs. These same restaurants delayed hiring an additional 106,000 people for a net loss of 252,000 employees in the restaurant industry alone.

Higher labor costs combined with high energy and raw material costs will accelerate inflation at a much higher rate than we are already experiencing. This means less purchasing power for everyone, hitting minimum-wage earners the hardest.

and this part nails it as far as my views on minimum wage:

Raising the minimum wage to help workers who earn it have a more comfortable lifestyle is no different from printing more money to pay off the national debt. It serves only to lower the value of the dollar, therefore hurting those that need help the most.

If workers earning the minimum wage truly desire to improve their standard of living, they must empower themselves by obtaining skills training rather than simply waiting for a federally mandated pay raise.

[Billy]

I guess my problem is that there are too many conflicting reports and studies on the subject to make any conclusions. You don't seem to have that problem.

[Trespass]

Wikipedia:
Here is a real world example of why unemployment may not necessarily increase: My parents own a struggling business. It is in the service industry which means labor is typically more of an expense than other industries (it's roughly 30% of the expenses). Currently, since every business tries to be as efficient as possible, they only employ as many employees as they need. If minimum wage increases, they can not just start firing people, as that would cause their business to fail.

They are not alone. This is the scenario for many businesses. So what will they do to compensate? Probably raise prices in the short run, not fire people. Why just the short run? As the lower class has more money, spending increases. Companies will eventually realize they are not doomed, and will try to compete in price again, forcing the prices back down.

But that's just one theory. You can argue the validity of that all you want. But what you cannot do, is say with certainty, that if you increase the minimum wage you will increase unemployment. There is no data to support that claim. And using "common sense" on a complicated matter is very foolish, as any engineer knows, common sense isn't always right.

I do think the increase should not be as large as the democrats want all at once. It should be taken in small increments over a period of time.

So the point of this response is not to say "support minimum wage increase". It may indeed be damaging to the economy. But please stop saying as your argument it will increase unemployment. As there is not any hard correlation to indicate so.

I think by its nature an increase in minimum wage would increase inflation on companies who don't already give higher than the proposed new wage. (so if movie theatre has to pay more to employees, ticket prices may rise to compensate).

But honestly i don't think it'll affect much of anything. People will most likely be able to buy the same amount as before (since most already make above it) and it won't effect the economy except for a little inflation which could be compensated for if the FED is on top of it.

I think this i more of an issue that supply and demand handles, and i don't think it'll do much good... or bad. Walmart will still not give employees benifits that people are bitching about, and in general they already pay above that amount for thier starting wage, so no real effect. I'd prefer it stay lower just for inflations sake, but then again if it helps a few people who can't even get to $7/hr live a little easier than its a decent thing to do.

[impala454]

I guess my problem is that there are too many conflicting reports and studies on the subject to make any conclusions. You don't seem to have that problem.

so what you're saying is if there's a conflicting report, you can't draw any conclusions? every issue out there has conflicting reports, it's which reports you want to believe and which ones present facts. i honestly haven't seen any reports showing facts and statistics that show minimum wage will help anyone. some of them say "well it won't hurt", but that's not a good reason to do vote something into law. Some say "well it's obviously good because they make more money", and do not analyze any other aspect of the issue (i.e. side effects like unemployment & inflation). From what I've read, the conclusions I've drawn are that a minimum wage increase is unnecessary and could have some negative effects on our economy.

[Hartmann]

From what I have read, most economists (conventional and unconventional) and business owners do not think a minimum wage increase is a good thing. Oddly, politicians do... hmmmm

[Testm0nkey]

im pretty sure most people living under $6/hr think its a good thing too

i hate economics and anything having to do with finance but dipping a little into huge companies profit margins is a bad thing how? small business owners arent hiring as many low wage unskilled workers as larger companies. id imagine banks/the goverment want to increase business and their profits so id imagine "small business opportunities" are going to increase even more.

[Hartmann]

im pretty sure most people living under $6/hr think its a good thing too

i hate economics and anything having to do with finance but dipping a little into huge companies profit margins is a bad thing how? small business owners arent hiring as many low wage unskilled workers as larger companies. id imagine banks/the goverment want to increase business and their profits so id imagine "small business opportunities" are going to increase even more.

Like I said before, the percentage of people making below minimum wage is actually very small and most of those people are younger than 22.

[Testm0nkey]

of course. but a lot of statistics leave out large populations of people. some dont even count part time workers, various people on disability, transient workers, illegal workers who are working minimum wage "legal" jobs

im sure living in a large city youll notice the huge amount of adult minimum wage workers who fit in one or more of those categories. its pretty easy to feel like they are more abundant then high school burger flippers

[Hartmann]

of course. but a lot of statistics leave out large populations of people. some dont even count part time workers, various people on disability, transient workers, illegal workers who are working minimum wage "legal" jobs

im sure living in a large city youll notice the huge amount of adult minimum wage workers who fit in one or more of those categories. its pretty easy to feel like they are more abundant then high school burger flippers

Well, part time workers aren't necessarily entitled to minimum wage.

Here's the problem. You want everyone to be treated monetarily equal when in fact they shouldn't be. Transient workers? Illegal workers? To me, neither of those deserve minimum wage. Yes, I said deserve. Illegal immigrants working legal jobs is a bigger problem. Transient workers are for the most part, transient for a reason.

My point is statistics leave those groups out for a reason, they aren't valid to the study. They are talking about full-time employees who are legally here and can hold down a job.

[impala454]

im pretty sure most people living under $6/hr think its a good thing too

i hate economics and anything having to do with finance but dipping a little into huge companies profit margins is a bad thing how? small business owners arent hiring as many low wage unskilled workers as larger companies. id imagine banks/the goverment want to increase business and their profits so id imagine "small business opportunities" are going to increase even more.

how good is it for them if they lose their job or have to pay X% more for their everyday items?

[Billy]

so what you're saying is if there's a conflicting report, you can't draw any conclusions? every issue out there has conflicting reports, it's which reports you want to believe and which ones present facts. i honestly haven't seen any reports showing facts and statistics that show minimum wage will help anyone. some of them say "well it won't hurt", but that's not a good reason to do vote something into law. Some say "well it's obviously good because they make more money", and do not analyze any other aspect of the issue (i.e. side effects like unemployment & inflation). From what I've read, the conclusions I've drawn are that a minimum wage increase is unnecessary and could have some negative effects on our economy.

You're essentially admitting you believe in what you want to believe, and care nothing for fact. The question is: Will raising the minimum wage increase unemployment? YOU CAN NOT ANSWER IT. The answer is: I don't know. So should we base our policy on I-don't-know's? Should we cut a potentially good policy, one that would help a lot of people because you believe it won't? I've said this before, but you're awfully arrogant to think you cannot be wrong. Basing policy on belief is incredibly immature and harmful to the population. If there were facts that showed that in the past, raising minimum wage increases unemployment, I would agree with you that maybe we shouldn't do it. But there aren't. The only thing out there is inclusive data that depending on which side you want to argue, can support either side. What that tells me is that there is no solid correlation between higher minimum wage and unemployment.

But the fact is, $5.15 in 2007 dollars is half of what $1.60 was in 1968 dollars as far as purchasing power is concerned ($9.12). That's a fact. And by this fact, minimum wage should be increased. Show me facts, not beliefs.

[Mommy]

You're essentially admitting you believe in what you want to believe, and care nothing for fact. The question is: Will raising the minimum wage increase unemployment? YOU CAN NOT ANSWER IT. The answer is: I don't know. So should we base our policy on I-don't-know's? Should we cut a potentially good policy, one that would help a lot of people because you believe it won't? I've said this before, but you're awfully arrogant to think you cannot be wrong. Basing policy on belief is incredibly immature and harmful to the population. If there were facts that showed that in the past, raising minimum wage increases unemployment, I would agree with you that maybe we shouldn't do it. But there aren't. The only thing out there is inclusive data that depending on which side you want to argue, can support either side. What that tells me is that there is no solid correlation between higher minimum wage and unemployment.

But the fact is, $5.15 in 2007 dollars is half of what $1.60 was in 1968 dollars as far as purchasing power is concerned ($9.12). That's a fact. And by this fact, minimum wage should be increased. Show me facts, not beliefs.

I agree with this

Most of you dont care or argue against it because you dont make that little.

[Dogmeat]

i think minimum wage needs to be LOWERED so we can make poor people even more poor and laugh at them and generate as much bad karma for ourselves as possible because we're all so goth and want to be miserable in this life and EVEN our next one

[impala454]

You're essentially admitting you believe in what you want to believe, and care nothing for fact.

no that's not what i'm admitting. you said that because there is conflicting reports you cannot come to any conclusion, and i told you there will always be conflicting reports with any issue. you have to use your brain to figure out which ones are wrong/misleading.

But the fact is, $5.15 in 2007 dollars is half of what $1.60 was in 1968 dollars as far as purchasing power is concerned ($9.12). That's a fact. And by this fact, minimum wage should be increased. Show me facts, not beliefs.

haha ok... go to wikipedia real quick and find the highest value minimum wage has ever held (and during vietnam no less) and compare it to that... great analysis. nevermind what the economic experts say.

Most of you dont care or argue against it because you dont make that little.

I don't agree with it because of all of the economic effects it could have on everyone. and this doesn't only affect minimum wage worker's wages, it affects everyone making less than $7.25.

bottom line is hartmann had it... only the politicians seem to be interested. gee i wonder why the democrats who just got hold of congress would want to raise minimum wage asap when we have presidential campaigns starting up soon.