Democratic agenda Options

[Aaron]

The men who were over there fighting at that point in time would beg to differ I'd immagine ....

Exactly what part of 'D' are you disputing with this statement?

[jwttu]

i don't think we should raise the minimum wage that much at once, i say phase in gradual raises so it has less of a huge effect across the economy

[Dogmeat]

i don't think we should raise the minimum wage that much at once, i say phase in gradual raises so it has less of a huge effect across the economy

Oh god how could I forget that.


*Pander to the bottom-of-the-barrel most worthless citizens the US has for more votes because supposedly their drug hazed opinions matter

[Aaron]

Oh god how could I forget that.
*Pander to the bottom-of-the-barrel most worthless citizens the US has for more votes because supposedly their drug hazed opinions matter

The possibility that you actually believe that astounds me.

Read this: Life at $7.25

[impala454]

i don't think we should raise the minimum wage that much at once, i say phase in gradual raises so it has less of a huge effect across the economy

i'm not all that for raising it that high (or maybe not at all), but i'm pretty sure the raise to $7.25 would be over several years, not all at once.

imho raising it to $7.25 (even over time) will skyrocket unemployment. a 40% increase in the cost of minimum wage workers will put smaller companies out of business, and have larger companies raising prices on everything we buy. plus we'll have an all new group of workers (who previously made around $7.25) who were 40% above minimum wage, back to the minimum wage. everyone pays more for everything. minimum wage workers would probably be hurt the worst.

[Billy]

i'm not all that for raising it that high (or maybe not at all), but i'm pretty sure the raise to $7.25 would be over several years, not all at once.

imho raising it to $7.25 (even over time) will skyrocket unemployment. a 40% increase in the cost of minimum wage workers will put smaller companies out of business, and have larger companies raising prices on everything we buy. plus we'll have an all new group of workers (who previously made around $7.25) who were 40% above minimum wage, back to the minimum wage. everyone pays more for everything. minimum wage workers would probably be hurt the worst.

Yeah that seems to be the argument "minimum wage workers will be hurt the worse". That was the argument the last time minimum wage was increased. But yet, if anything, unemployment dropped after the wage increase. So what makes you think there will be the opposite this time?

[GOB]

it really doesn't affect enough people and won't be enough money to make any sort of huge impact on the economy.

personally, i don't think minimum wage jobs deserve any more money, but who fucking cares if they make another 4-5k per year (assuming they work full time)?

[woody]

i'm not all that for raising it that high (or maybe not at all), but i'm pretty sure the raise to $7.25 would be over several years, not all at once.

28 months

[Hartmann]

Man I need to find that study that states most Americans (something like 88%) make above minimum wage already...

[impala454]

That was the argument the last time minimum wage was increased. But yet, if anything, unemployment dropped after the wage increase.

I'm not sure where you get that unemployment dropped because of minimum wage increase. I'd be interested to see some actual numbers on that.

So what makes you think there will be the opposite this time?

well I don't necessarily believe your claim that unemployment dropped due to the minimum wage increasing. if you'd like to explain to me how that makes sense in terms of business I'd be interested to hear it.

here's the last few increases
1974: $2.00
1981: $3.35 (55% increase)
1991: $4.25 (26% increase)
1997: $5.15 (21% increase)
2009: $7.25 (41% increase)

now I don't know about you, but if you attribute minimum wage as some correlation to economy (which I don't necessarily believe, as there's tons of other factors, but since it seems to be what you believe I'll indulge you), then we're heading straight for an early 80s economy (which was a bad recession).

[Hartmann]

I don't want to get into the "Minimum Wage Increase Sucks" argument again but here is a decent article...

http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba/ba499/

[jwttu]

I also dont think minimum wage should be increased the same nationwide. I think this should be a state issue since $1 goes alot further in some states than in others.

[Aaron]

I'm not too worried. The way I figure it, the proposed increase may affect things in the short term but will eventually even out in the long term.

Another thing that I like about the bill that contains the proposed increase is that it extends the Federal minimum wage to the Northern Mariana Islands, a commonwealth in political union with the United States. On the other hand, I dislike the fact that it does not extend to American Samoa, where the average worker receives $3.60 per hour.

[Hartmann]

I also dont think minimum wage should be increased the same nationwide. I think this should be a state issue since $1 goes alot further in some states than in others.

You make an interesting point that hits the nail on the head... This is most certainly a state issue and that's how it's been handled in the past.

[Billy]

I'm not sure where you get that unemployment dropped because of minimum wage increase. I'd be interested to see some actual numbers on that.
well I don't necessarily believe your claim that unemployment dropped due to the minimum wage increasing. if you'd like to explain to me how that makes sense in terms of business I'd be interested to hear it.

here's the last few increases
1974: $2.00
1981: $3.35 (55% increase)
1991: $4.25 (26% increase)
1997: $5.15 (21% increase)
2009: $7.25 (41% increase)

now I don't know about you, but if you attribute minimum wage as some correlation to economy (which I don't necessarily believe, as there's tons of other factors, but since it seems to be what you believe I'll indulge you), then we're heading straight for an early 80s economy (which was a bad recession).

Wikipedia:

The more common debate is on changes to minimum wages. This unified view was challenged by research done by David Card and Alan Krueger. In their 1997 book Myth and Measurement: The New Economics of the Minimum Wage (ISBN 0-691-04823-1), they argued the negative employment effects of minimum-wage laws to be minimal if not non-existent (at least for the United States). For example, they look at the 1992 increase in New Jersey's minimum wage, the 1988 rise in California's minimum wage, and the 1990-91 increases in the federal minimum wage. In each case, Card and Krueger present evidence ostensibly showing that increases in the minimum wage led to increases in pay, but no loss in jobs. That is, it appears that the demand for low-wage workers is inelastic. Also, these authors reexamine the existing literature on the minimum wage and argue that it, too, lacks support for the claim that a higher minimum wage cuts the availability of jobs.

Here is a real world example of why unemployment may not necessarily increase: My parents own a struggling business. It is in the service industry which means labor is typically more of an expense than other industries (it's roughly 30% of the expenses). Currently, since every business tries to be as efficient as possible, they only employ as many employees as they need. If minimum wage increases, they can not just start firing people, as that would cause their business to fail.

They are not alone. This is the scenario for many businesses. So what will they do to compensate? Probably raise prices in the short run, not fire people. Why just the short run? As the lower class has more money, spending increases. Companies will eventually realize they are not doomed, and will try to compete in price again, forcing the prices back down.

But that's just one theory. You can argue the validity of that all you want. But what you cannot do, is say with certainty, that if you increase the minimum wage you will increase unemployment. There is no data to support that claim. And using "common sense" on a complicated matter is very foolish, as any engineer knows, common sense isn't always right.

I do think the increase should not be as large as the democrats want all at once. It should be taken in small increments over a period of time.

So the point of this response is not to say "support minimum wage increase". It may indeed be damaging to the economy. But please stop saying as your argument it will increase unemployment. As there is not any hard correlation to indicate so.