Religious/Philosophical discussion, your thoughts Options

[TetraGrammaton C...]

this thread was inspired by the atheist video thread

we have not had one of these in a while. i thought it would be interesting if people wanted to have an ungoing discussion about what beliefs/morals/religious ideas/scruples they have and why they have them.

i will try to interject myself as a catalyst when i have time.

i would ask that no one is too inconsiderate of other people's ideas. however, i do not think their is anything wrong with light humor or logical criticism.



as for religious trends, it seems that our generation is having difficulties with Christianity, ranging from "I'm spiritual, not religious" to the casual "Christian" that does not really believe in Jesus, but believes in the Christian god. I have met several people who treat religion like a buffet, picking and choosing which particular characteristics of the ethos that seem most suitable. this seems to be indicative of a deterioration of religion in general, as if what was once considered dogmatic is now flexible and relative. aside from the particular personal relevance to our own lives, there also exists a greater societal relevance. what will change in our country if we are on a religious downslope? can religion die out or is it cyclical? who will win flying shark vs. flying crocodile? what about a flying spaghetti monster? does it come with breadsticks? when was the last time you ate at olive garden? etc. etc.

[Spectatrix]

I believe in Eris, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and the Invisible Pink Unicorn. I did my part for the FSM by dressing up as a pirate for a birthday party in September.

More seriously, though, I'm an atheistic agnostic. Specifically, I'm a "weak" atheist and a "weak" agnostic. The former means that, while I lack a belief in a deity, I do not have a strong, absolute conviction against his/her/its/their existence. Such would be inconsistent with agnosticism. By "weak" agnostic I mean that I currently have not seen any convincing proof or disproof of a deity's existence, but I acknowledge that I may possibly come across such proof or disproof in the future. A strong agnostic, on the contrary, believes that there is not and never shall be any proof either for or against the existence of a god(dess).

Weak and strong atheism
Weak agnosticism
Strong agnosticism

This post has been edited by Spectatrix: Dec 4 2006, 12:58 AM

[GOB]

I have met several people who treat religion like a buffet, picking and choosing which particular characteristics of the ethos that seem most suitable.

pretty much every protestant i know who considers themselves religious follows this. i don't agree with it, but i don't really care. at least they believe in something, even if it changes every other week.

[Spectatrix]

Oh yeah, as to why I have my beliefs...

With the agnosticism, it's simply because I haven't seen anything to convince me that there either is or isn't a god. I have seen/experienced stuff that I would consider proof of paranormal phenomena, like telepathy and psychokinesis, but no evidence of a god...

... which leads me to the atheism. I see no reason to believe in something that I have no proof of. Even when I was dabbling in paganism, I was going through the motions of spells/rituals, but I didn't believe in any of the pantheons or mythology. *shrugs*

[psidancer]

I was a fairly religious person until I came out to my youth pastor in high school. He told me if I prayed God would change me... Long story short, I've hardly stepped foot back into a church since.

I'd consider myself a strong atheist now, although I do my best to not try to be one of those bitter church bashing atheists.

[chook]

I was a fairly religious person until I came out to my youth pastor in high school. He told me if I prayed God would change me... Long story short, I've hardly stepped foot back into a church since.

I'd consider myself a strong atheist now, although I do my best to not try to be one of those bitter church bashing atheists.

Reminds me of a young Dr. Dini

[chook]

I am a subpar Catholic. I was raised by staunch catholics, and would of abandoned the faith if not for intelligent Religious figures I've met. Natural Law (minus or plus religion) is a really good philosophy.

Do good, avoid evil.

[FORSAKENR320]

I am a subpar Catholic. I was raised by staunch catholics, and would of abandoned the faith if not for intelligent Religious figures I've met. Natural Law (minus or plus religion) is a really good philosophy.

Do good, avoid evil.

i'm actually truelly curious about this:: does catholicism have any strong views about interracial relationships? or is it just the close-minded people that tend to speak their mind the most that make it seem that way? and if catholicism DOES have anti-interracial views, how does it feel to know you are going to burn in hell for having yellow fever?




i believe in a god. i do not believe in jesus, or in particular the "christian" god. i believe that there is a supreme being out there who made us for his own amusement, and who judges us based on what we do in life to either go to "hell" or heaven" i don't believe that this god-figure will step in, help out, answer prayers, or anything like that. he made the world the way he wanted it, and now he sits back and watches. there is no reason to pray, he doesn't care. there is no reason to worship, he's so omnipotent he doesn't care if you even acknowledge him. but he will be there at the end, and if you're a good person, you're in the VIP section, if not, you go somewhered less pleasant. it is said that "man was made after god's own likeness" to me that doesn't mean we look like god, it means that unlike any other animal on earth, mentally we are like god. in which case, i believe that god is very capable of having a sadistic sense of humor, and both a good and evil streak every now and then.

[woody]

i'm actually truelly curious about this:: does catholicism have any strong views about interracial relationships? or is it just the close-minded people that tend to speak their mind the most that make it seem that way? and if catholicism DOES have anti-interracial views, how does it feel to know you are going to burn in hell for having yellow fever?

does catholicism have any strong views about interracial relationships?
no

or is it just the close-minded people that tend to speak their mind the most that make it seem that way?
yes

[Billy]

I think I share christine's view on religion. I lean more towards atheism but do not rule out the possibility of a supreme being that may have been the catalyst that started life on earth, or at least the advance forms of life on earth. I just feel that "the religious god" is much like santa claus. A story made up to keep people doing what they're suppose to do while no one is watching. A way to teach moral responsibility and a way to control the masses. He knows if you've been naughty or nice, but instead of getting presents or coal, you get heaven or hell. I do think it's kind of ridiculous people can believe in it though, as it's about equally believable as greek mythology. In the entire written history of man kind, there is not one credible, recorded instance of a god. There's mythology like the bible. A collection of stories that may or may not be true. But no real evidence to show one exists.

What I do believe in is reincarnation. I do not belive in things like karma though. I do not believe there is any divine force that provides justice and makes sure the world stays "good". But I do believe it is a type of energy that provides us consciousness coupled with the biological capacity to contain that energy. So when you die, this energy travels through whatever is around it in search of this capacity. I do not know if you can be things like a blood cell or bacteria, but there's no reason to rule that out.

I think all objects in space contain this energy. The universe expands and then contracts. When it contracts, everything in the universe falls towards one another, towards the universe's center of gravity. Everything collides, and during this collision, this energy travels around and shifts, explosions happen and the universe begins expasion again (big bang). And so if your "soul" as we'll call it ends up on an astroid that never sees a life form visit it, it could be billions of years before you have consciousness again, though it won't feel like it. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, as if you were to die in space, you won't be stuck in non-existance.

[Trespass]

Flying souls through space?.... sounds good enough to me, now market it and sell it!


I'd say Islam.... sure some people say its a violent religion, but hey its a violent world why would the religion be different. Basically it takes christianity and says that god sent a new prophet to clear shit up that the jews and christians messed up (sounds reasonable to me considering the hack job constantine did by completely changing the christian religion etc.).

Oh and also it shows hell as one would believe a "loving" god would make it... a lack of god's love/presence, not just some random burning punishment thing. A place where one goes to learn from their pride that they were wrong, and they eventually take steps towards finding god, and then its just a progressing journey of enlightenment from there.

But it could all be a explosion of matter that formed a solar system and planet with water which we formed from elements being effected by electrical impulses... im not really the one to say.

OR Zues could really be pissed right now waiting to zapp our ungreatful asses with lightning.

But i think we can all admit that mormons and scientologists have it right!

[The Fanatic]

God is dead

I am a surrealist atheist

Jesus fucked my grandmother

The only god is the one inside your mind, he takes many different forms

Jesus was a hippie

If god did exist, he is not all loving

This post has been edited by Dr. Gonzo: Dec 4 2006, 10:35 AM

[Billy]

Flying souls through space?....

Once again I have proven myself incapable of explaining a thought. So let me try again, but this time in the form of Q&A.

Q: Do you believe souls can fly through space?
A: No. I believe there must be some sort of transporting medium.

Q: What do you think happens when you die?
A: You reincarnate.

Q: Can you reincarnate into anything?
A: I don't think so. I don't think you can reincarnate into non-biological things like rocks. But I also don't think you can reincarnate into things like trees, plants, or someone's kidney. I won't rule these out however, as I do not know what all is involved to have the "biological capacity" to store....you.

Q: So in the past 50 years, we've been sending people up into outter space. What happens if they die out there? Do they magically come back to earth and inherit another body?
A: No. Again, I think there must be some sort of conducting transporting medium for your "soul" to travel through, much like electricity. It doesn't magically go from point A to point B. So let's say one of these astronauts dies on his craft. What I believe is his "soul" travels throughout that spacecraft until it can find a body to inherit. Since, as we know, it will never find one, it will be "stuck" on that craft until that craft crashes into something, like back to earth, or something else that doesn't have life.

Q: What do you mean it travels? Like it walks around and you're a ghost?
A: No. I think you are in the form of something similar to electricity. You are not conscious and your movement is likely pretty random.

Q: So NASA is making plans to send people to Mars for 18 month intervals. Are you telling me that if one of those people die on that planet, which is currently believed to not have any life on it, they will never regain consciousness?
A: Yes and no. While Mars remains Mars, and if it really doesn't have life and never gains life (Earth doesn't colonize it), those people who die there will never inherit a body until the universe contracts, and all matter becomes approximately together for a very short period. At that point, those "souls" may conduct to a part of the total matter that splits off into a planet, which may one day have life. If that happens, they may gain consciousness again. However, if they end up on something that doesn't ever evolve life, like an astroid, they will have to wait another 100 billion or so years before they get another chance.

Q: So you believe the universe is in a perpectual contraction and expasion?
A: Yes. As all matter runs out of kinetic energy, the gravity of everything pulls the universe back together. At some point, all the planets, stars, etc will collide again, causing a brief moment of one giant mass, at which point the elasticity of matter as well as the explosions caused from the collision force this matter to break apart again into the stars, planets, etc. Essentially restarting the universe. I believe this process always happens, and nothing can ever really escape this system.

[The Fanatic]

Truth be told
Reflections in a looking glass

Lifes are sold
Chances at some hot ass

Christians live
Giving you another chance

Truth they give
I’ll never take another glance

Uncertainty reigns
This lonely selfish earth

Uncanny stains
Another worthless human birth

Greedy bastard
Takes everything you earn

Party plastered
Kills all that I have learned

Sin tonight
Regrets the dizzy past

Blinding light
Waking dreams that will not last

Fucking lies
Recited as true fact

Another cries
Forced into a marriage pact

Unhappy days
Until death do we part

Fidelity strays
Away from his lonely heart

Truth is lies
There is no holy book

Everyone dies
Alone inside they look

Christian asshole
Can’t wait till they all die

Eternity he stole
Everything in life a lie

[Trespass]

Once again I have proven myself incapable of explaining a thought. So let me try again, but this time in the form of Q&A.

Q: Do you believe souls can fly through space?
A: No. I believe there must be some sort of transporting medium.

Q: What do you think happens when you die?
A: You reincarnate.

Q: Can you reincarnate into anything?
A: I don't think so. I don't think you can reincarnate into non-biological things like rocks. But I also don't think you can reincarnate into things like trees, plants, or someone's kidney. I won't rule these out however, as I do not know what all is involved to have the "biological capacity" to store....you.

Q: So in the past 50 years, we've been sending people up into outter space. What happens if they die out there? Do they magically come back to earth and inherit another body?
A: No. Again, I think there must be some sort of conducting transporting medium for your "soul" to travel through, much like electricity. It doesn't magically go from point A to point B. So let's say one of these astronauts dies on his craft. What I believe is his "soul" travels throughout that spacecraft until it can find a body to inherit. Since, as we know, it will never find one, it will be "stuck" on that craft until that craft crashes into something, like back to earth, or something else that doesn't have life.

Q: What do you mean it travels? Like it walks around and you're a ghost?
A: No. I think you are in the form of something similar to electricity. You are not conscious and your movement is likely pretty random.

Q: So NASA is making plans to send people to Mars for 18 month intervals. Are you telling me that if one of those people die on that planet, which is currently believed to not have any life on it, they will never regain consciousness?
A: Yes and no. While Mars remains Mars, and if it really doesn't have life and never gains life (Earth doesn't colonize it), those people who die there will never inherit a body until the universe contracts, and all matter becomes approximately together for a very short period. At that point, those "souls" may conduct to a part of the total matter that splits off into a planet, which may one day have life. If that happens, they may gain consciousness again. However, if they end up on something that doesn't ever evolve life, like an astroid, they will have to wait another 100 billion or so years before they get another chance.

Q: So you believe the universe is in a perpectual contraction and expasion?
A: Yes. As all matter runs out of kinetic energy, the gravity of everything pulls the universe back together. At some point, all the planets, stars, etc will collide again, causing a brief moment of one giant mass, at which point the elasticity of matter as well as the explosions caused from the collision force this matter to break apart again into the stars, planets, etc. Essentially restarting the universe. I believe this process always happens, and nothing can ever really escape this system.

All that over a joke, i feel special.

Anyway, so do you think the energy deteriorates over time (like electricity losing power the farther away from the source (life) it goes? Because all energy can do is be expended, energy can't create MORE energy (thus is our understanding of normal science) so that might explain why reincarnation wouldn't be a "re-birth" of sorts, more just an echo of prior self. But would you say eventually the energy would deteroriate at some point as to hold no charge anymore?

Oh and this just reminds me of final fantasy VII with all the "planet force" stuff... heh