Democrats Options

[pebkac]

By raising the minimum wage you artificially raise inflation. You push the prices of goods up by "increasing" the standard of living. Economists have been screaming this for a long time.

If the places that pay minimum wage to their employees have to increase that amount they will compensate by first lowering benefits to those people, then raising prices. If they provide a good or service that is common or sought after, those people who got an increase in wage will not see an increase in their ability to purchase goods.

So if Wal-Mart increased their minimum wage, the workers would more than likely see their benefits drop and then the fact that they still couldn't buy stuff at the cheap store they work up.

Heh... I dunno if you've ever worked for a place that pays minimum wage, but the benefits are hardly great.

Secondly, the prices the stores charge are regulated by market forces. The wages they pay aren't quite as much.

It's a lot easier to quit shopping at Wal Mart instead of Albertsons if you're not satisfied with the prices. It's nowhere near as easy to quit Wal Mart if the wages aren't beneficial.

On the other hand, look at things this way: if employers pay their employees a living wage, the economy would also save beaucoups of money in welfare. This means lower taxes, so in the long run, the effect on the economy wouldn't be quite as dramatic.

[Spectatrix]

How does living wage = less welfare?

[celebritygooner]

most ignorant statement I've ever read.


So what about all those people who have been pushed into early retirement, laid off due to outsourcing, etc. and need a job?
Guess they should abandon their family...

I answered your challenge in the other thread and you never responded psyko ...

If you give everybody more money, prices rise. When prices rise, you can buy less with the same money. The end result of an across-the-board wage increase is everybody being worse off because low-end jobs that can be exported (manufacturing) GET exported because that American refuses to be paid less than $7 an hour and a Cambodian will do it for $2.

Minimum wage is an emotionally satisfying political stunt but a complete disaster for the economy.

[GOB]

seconded

in the oprah show they also talked to some people like nurses who were making more than min wage and still werent able to make ends meet... living with their children in shelters and such

um, the problem isn't what they make, it's what they spend. the same goes with people of all income levels. there are a million ways to save more money and cut back on expenses, it's just how far you're willing to go. a family can be raised on minimum wage, but their lifestyle would be drastically different than most of us are probably used to.

check out this book for some crazy shit on the subject. it's pretty much "how to become a hippie 101," but i had to read it for a financial counseling class a couple of years ago.




i'm interning at a financial planning office in dallas this summer, and i sat in on a client meeting where the guy and his wife can never retire because they want to spend 15,000 a month. the husband is 70, and the only way he could retire was in 10 years, and he would have to make at least 100k per year. people are idiots.

[chook]

How does living wage = less welfare?

less people qualifying

[GOB]

maybe people who make 5.15/hr shouldn't be raising families

amen. and anyone raising a family on minimum wage would probably have two incomes and more than enough free help from the government that i provided by paying my taxes.

[Spectatrix]

less people qualifying

Minimum wage goes up, poverty level will probably go up, same # of people will qualify...

[celebritygooner]

Minimum wage goes up, poverty level will probably go up, same # of people will qualify...

Poverty is relative ... America's poor are much better off than Cambodia's poor or Ethiopia's poor ... but we never run out of "compassion" and desire to relieve them of life's burdens. No matter how rich our society as a whole, there will always be a group of people less wealthy than the rest, and that group will always be the constituency of Dems who want to use socialist promises to maintain power. Those promises -- like the aformentioned minimum wage -- only make our "poor" unemployable, and undermine the entire economy.

[Spectatrix]

Those promises -- like the aformentioned minimum wage -- only make our "poor" unemployable, and undermine the entire economy.

Yeah, duh. I don't think I was arguing *for* a minimum wage increase, was I? Buehler? Buehler?

[kcroxyoursox]

and anyone raising a family on minimum wage would probably have two incomes

not trying to be stereotypical (though it works best for this example) but do you really think shaniqua down at mcdonalds has a baby daddy helpin her take care of rayshawn jr?

and more than enough free help from the government that i provided by paying my taxes.

on another link on that oprah page i posted, it said one guy makes 9.22 an hour, which is still $9000 lower annually than the government deems the poverty level. but because he makes more than min wage he doesnt qualify for state administered food stamps or medical aid. same with a lady who makes 10 an hour at a desk job.

i guess yes its possible for these people to save and eventually move up in the world, but you have to realize that not only are they having to save for the future, but also accrue enough to pay back what they owe now, which could be a whole lot depending on medical bills and such. at the end of just 30 days, the super size me guy and his gf owed about $1200, and at the rate they were working (him working 2 jobs/18 hours even) it would have taken them three months to pay it off, provided nothing else came up.

yes if everyone started with a clean slate tomorrow im sure many more people could make min wage work for them if they had to. but how many people really have a clean slate?

[GOB]

not trying to be stereotypical (though it works best for this example) but do you really think shaniqua down at mcdonalds has a baby daddy helpin her take care of rayshawn jr?

probably less than 10%. and if shaniqua doesn't keep her legs closed after mistake #1, she'll be working at mcdonalds for the rest of her life.

but then again, shaniqua probably also lives with her 30 year old mother and 45 year old grandmother, so there's 4 welfare checks right there to make sure they still have enough cash to eat after they make their daily cigarette/booze run.

[Dogmeat]

I think we need to elect aliens that Xenu knows .... that would rule.

[Testm0nkey]

As compassionate as i am i have to agree with the sentiment that they shouldnt be raising families if they cant support the children. buying condoms is a whole lot cheaper than raising 5 kids. that is what adoption is for - to give children a better chance at being raised in a home where they can get more than their basic needs met.
an adults irresponsibility and not looking out for their children or possible childrens best interest

[Spectatrix]

on another link on that oprah page i posted, it said one guy makes 9.22 an hour, which is still $9000 lower annually than the government deems the poverty level. but because he makes more than min wage he doesnt qualify for state administered food stamps or medical aid. same with a lady who makes 10 an hour at a desk job.

$9.22/hr = $19,177.60/yr... the poverty level for a single person is $9,800/yr.

[Testm0nkey]

its different if he has a family. then i think its 23k?