Congress getting richer, again Options

[knucklehead]

plus, no taxes and insane benefits.

Yeah for sure. I was just looking through this site, it's got some interesting information from a few years ago, like the fact that those that retire after a certain number of years of full service get about $52,000 a year in retirement pay. And I'm sure some get a hell of a lot more.

http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/weekly/aa031200a.htm

[celebritygooner]

Side question: Can anyone here put up a valid arguement for the elimination of a minimum wage?

What you all are saying about people earning more and spending more is all well and good, but it doesn't work in a global economy.

Phil Knight's job isn't to make life good for Americans or to be a hero and make lots of political points, his job is to make a huge profit for shareholders. If you force him to pay an American $6 or $20 or whatever dollars an hour to do a job that a Chinese person can do, and is willing to do, for $2 an hour, why WOULDN'T he hire the Chinese person?

Spectrix make a wonderful point ... remember the labor riots in France a couple months ago? The European social model is basically minimum wage taken to the extreme ... the French (parliament???) tried to pass a law saying employers were free to fire a new (couple months) young worker for no reason, because currently in France it is almost impossible to do it; the reaction was so negative (HOW COULD ANYBODY ... *GASP* LOSE THEIR JOB?!!??!!?

But if you knew you were required to pay somebody more than they were worth and that you had no legal means to fire them if they were idiots, why would anybody hire anybody ever?

Europe has tried this and failed miserably at it, they tried it in the 1940's and 50's, that's the reason the United States enjoyed, basically, 50 years of uninterrupted prosperity -- Europe had no manufacturing sector (war damage) and they had the idea that everybody deserved free money from the government just for being them ... Americans worked harder, had more and better infrastructure, and thus we were the production and export capital of the world. We aren't anymore. Minimum wage and social welfare and compassion and OSHA and pensions make it too expensive to produce goods, so we don't. China does. Have you checked the trade defecit? I wonder who's next in line for world supremacy ...

Followup question: Can you name anything France manufactures and exports? If you can't, you now know why their economy is a disaster, and you've just seen America circa 2060.

[Spectatrix]

Followup question: Can you name anything France manufactures and exports?

Evian and Perrier bottled water.

[Divergent Realit...]

wine

[Billy]

It's also cheaper to live in China than it is in America. Just like in Mexico. There are laws currently being made about exploiting this fact. A dollar is worth a lot more in China than it is in America. But guess what, once our two economies level, that'll change. And then where do the manufacturer's go to next? Yeah, who ever has the weakest economy at the time. And that's why laws need to be made. Capitalism fails on a global level, unless countries create laws to protect their working class.

But this whole argument is moot. Companies CAN afford a minimum wage hike. Labor doesn't tend to be much of the expense of a company. The people who work so hard and give up so much of their lives to keep this country productive NEED to be protected. And an increase in minimum wage does just that. A minimum wage increase won't increase prices to the consumer in a competitive economy, if companies can afford it. And they can.

[pebkac]

What you all are saying about people earning more and spending more is all well and good, but it doesn't work in a global economy.

Phil Knight's job isn't to make life good for Americans or to be a hero and make lots of political points, his job is to make a huge profit for shareholders. If you force him to pay an American $6 or $20 or whatever dollars an hour to do a job that a Chinese person can do, and is willing to do, for $2 an hour, why WOULDN'T he hire the Chinese person?

Spectrix make a wonderful point ... remember the labor riots in France a couple months ago? The European social model is basically minimum wage taken to the extreme ... the French (parliament???) tried to pass a law saying employers were free to fire a new (couple months) young worker for no reason, because currently in France it is almost impossible to do it; the reaction was so negative (HOW COULD ANYBODY ... *GASP* LOSE THEIR JOB?!!??!!?

But if you knew you were required to pay somebody more than they were worth and that you had no legal means to fire them if they were idiots, why would anybody hire anybody ever?

Europe has tried this and failed miserably at it, they tried it in the 1940's and 50's, that's the reason the United States enjoyed, basically, 50 years of uninterrupted prosperity -- Europe had no manufacturing sector (war damage) and they had the idea that everybody deserved free money from the government just for being them ... Americans worked harder, had more and better infrastructure, and thus we were the production and export capital of the world. We aren't anymore. Minimum wage and social welfare and compassion and OSHA and pensions make it too expensive to produce goods, so we don't. China does. Have you checked the trade defecit? I wonder who's next in line for world supremacy ...

Followup question: Can you name anything France manufactures and exports? If you can't, you now know why their economy is a disaster, and you've just seen America circa 2060.

I agree with you 100%. It would be best for the economy if everyone got paid $2 an hour just like they do in China.

BTW, have you seen the living conditions in China?

[woody]

170K...plus money from the running for office...plus "gifts"...plus expensise accts...

[celebritygooner]

I agree with you 100%. It would be best for the economy if everyone got paid $2 an hour just like they do in China.

BTW, have you seen the living conditions in China?

I didn't say you had to like it, but that's the way it is. If you artificially inflate the cost of American labor, Chinese (the comptuer I'm typing on), Taiwanese (the TV i'm watching), Brazilian (the banana i'm eating), Mexican (the futon i'm sitting on), Indian (the t-shirt i'm wearing), Pakistani (the shorts i'm wearing) and Bangladeshi (the sandals i'm wearing) labor will happily take up the slack.

It's easy to take a sharp verbal jab at someone about the standard of living in China ... it's hard to have a functioning economy without any discernable labor class.