Catholicism Options

[FORSAKENR320]

Um, Brandon, Catholics don't think that saints become angels. Angels are celestial beings, without free will, created completely seperately from humans. They DO believe, however, that having been good enough to get into heaven (as evidenced by their holy lives), that maybe the saints know a thing or two about that whole "god" thing and can get a word in edgewise.

hmm, then am i thinking methodist or episcipalian? (sp)


went to those too. damn religions and their "jesus wore a red cloak! no, he wore a blue one!" differences

[Spectatrix]

hmm, then am i thinking methodist or episcipalian? (sp)


went to those too. damn religions and their "jesus wore a red cloak! no, he wore a blue one!" differences

Looks like Mormons believe that... they apparently say that Adam turned into Michael the archangel and that Noah turned into Gabriel.

[FORSAKENR320]

Looks like Mormons believe that... they apparently say that Adam turned into Michael the archangel and that Noah turned into Gabriel.

i remember my run in with mormons.......

we had porno playing on the big screen, were talking shots of vodka at 11am, and offering it to them./ all of us dressed like damn heathans... this i got into a discussion with them and forced them to admit that jesus was counter productive to christianity

[nickluto]

Catholicism messes you up. Makes you feel guilty about inherent characteristics of the human condition.

And yes, I was raised a Catholic until age 18.

[jonathan83]

Stop contradicting yourself, please.

i'm not contradicting myself.

Why can't you just go to God yourself without asking someone elese? 

you CAN and DO go to God yourself. It's just that asking someone else to pray WITH you is like prayering in number and I know the bible mentions about praying together in groups and for other people, etc.

Never, EVER ask for someone to pray for you.  Or, you can, if you stop saying that asking the saints/Mary to pray for you is the same as worshipping them and is wrong.

I can and will ask peopleto pray for/with me. But ASKING a saint or mary anything at all is acknowledging that they can hear you and how the HECK do you come to that realization?

yes, as someone pointed out earlier, they are in heaven and alive in spirit and all that, but where where where does anything say that they can hear your prayers? I believe there are people in heaven and all that, but God himself only has the powers to hear your prayers. unless you can show me something to prove me wrong, and then i'll be wrong.

[jonathan83]

For starters, we don't believe that people in heaven are dead. Quite the opposite.

Jesus said "Now he is a God not of the dead, but of the living; for to him all of them are alive." (Lk 20:39-40)

ok as i just said in my post right above... yeah, i didn't mean dead in that way. i mean yes, they're humanly dead but they have spirits alive in heaven. yeah, i believe that too.
BUT, i've never read or heard or been told anything about how anybody (except God himself) could hear you or your prayers. Do you think everyone in heaven is looking down on us, helping us out? Are the semi-gods now too or something? I dont understand why anyone would believe that they could hear and help us.

[Erik B.]

As far as I know, the saints have no power to actually perform miracles themselves. However, it is the view of the church that by asking a saint to intercede for you, miracles can happen through that saint's intercession. God performs the acts. The saints just pray on your behalf to make it happen.

[chook]

ok as i just said in my post right above... yeah, i didn't mean dead in that way. i mean yes, they're humanly dead but they have spirits alive in heaven. yeah, i believe that too.
BUT, i've never read or heard or been told anything about how anybody (except God himself) could hear you or your prayers. Do you think everyone in heaven is looking down on us, helping us out? Are the semi-gods now too or something? I dont understand why anyone would believe that they could hear and help us.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life
John 3:16
Never perishing sounds like you never truely die, and then they can pray for you.

The Jews call on Elijah during the passover seder, you are calling them to help pray for you to god.

[jonathan83]

you are calling them to help pray for you to god.

no i'm not. i'm not jewish

[GOB]

no i'm not. i'm not jewish

well hey, how about instead of having a completely closed mind to the fact that a several billion people pray to dead people, how about you read what's been posted.

[jonathan83]

well hey, how about instead of having a completely closed mind to the fact that a several billion people pray to dead people, how about you read what's been posted.

what are you talking about? he was talking about passover, which is completely unrelated. plus, i already responded to this, so here it is again:

yeah, i didn't mean dead in that way. i mean yes, they're humanly dead but they have spirits alive in heaven. yeah, i believe that too.
BUT, i've never read or heard or been told anything about how anybody (except God himself) could hear you or your prayers. Do you think everyone in heaven is looking down on us, helping us out? Are the semi-gods now too or something? I dont understand why anyone would believe that they could hear and help us.

now you can read what's been posted.

This post has been edited by jonathan83: May 31 2006, 09:38 AM

[chook]

what are you talking about? he was talking about passover, which is completely unrelated. plus, i already responded to this, so here it is again:

now you can read what's been posted.

Yeah, Jesus was a white middle class person who lived in Suburbia and voted straight republican, all hail White Jesus!

[Spectatrix]

what are you talking about? he was talking about passover, which is completely unrelated. plus, i already responded to this, so here it is again:

How is it completely unrelated? If Jews call on Elijah to pray for them during the Seder, doesn't that lend some legitimacy (and historicity) to the Catholic practice of asking the saints to pray for them?

This post has been edited by Spectatrix: May 31 2006, 09:51 AM

[jonathan83]

Yeah, Jesus was a white middle class person who lived in Suburbia and voted straight republican, all hail White Jesus!

i really have no idea what you're trying to get at dude.

[jonathan83]

How is it completely unrelated? If Jews call on Elijah to pray for them during the Seder, doesn't that lend some legitimacy (and historicity) to the Catholic practice of asking the saints to pray for them?

i don't see how it would make it more legitimate? either way i'm saying i don't agree with it, and haven't seen in the bible where it mentions any of this stuff. it just doesn't make sense to me.