Catholicism Options

[GOB]

well i need 12 hookers sent to my home every day.


oh don't worry, i already forgave myself, so it's all good.

[Erik B.]

i have a hard time swallowing a religion that bases it's self upon Jesus.


simply because until jesus arrived, offerings to God were not done in money. they were done in crops and live stock. when jesus came around is when it suddenly became neccessary to donate in hard cash. did jesus invent the currancy back then? no, it existed before him. so doesn't it seem odd that him and his posse suddenly change the offering system that had worked since the beginning of human society? ++corruption from the beginning++

Well, that's true if you completely ignore the temple tax that jews were required by law to pay in atomement for their sins.

Jesus threw the money changers out of the temple claiming they were turning the temple into a "den of thieves." Why? Because the only currency allowed to pay the temple tax was using the Shekel. The money changers would convert your foreign currency to Shekels for a fee.

You say that giving money started with Jesus? From Jewish law (which, in case you were curious, the Jews were around before Jesus):

Every one that passeth among them that are numbered, from twenty years old and above, shall give an offering unto Yahweh (Ex. 31:12-14).

See, the Jews thought they had to pay money to be forgiven. Jesus took that away.

[FORSAKENR320]

Every one that passeth among them that are numbered, from twenty years old and above, shall give an offering unto Yahweh (Ex. 31:12-14).

as i stated before, offerings were done in cattle, and crops


later, even salt



the most common sacrifices were that of grains, in remberance of God's favoritism of Abel

and yes, the money changers WERE kicked out, but their job ORIGINATED by taking the crops, cattle and salt, and bartering it for the equivelent in currancy, then converting it to shekels. farm folk didn't just walk around with hard cash, dude..... literacy, math and writing skills were usually only obtained by the well off people, the poor folk needed the merchant class in order to deal with such matters, and thus it was exploited


learn ALL of the shit you're talking about, don't pick and choose what you think sounds convieniant to your arguement

[woody]

i have a hard time swallowing a religion that bases it's self upon Jesus.


simply because until jesus arrived, offerings to God were not done in money. they were done in crops and live stock. when jesus came around is when it suddenly became neccessary to donate in hard cash. did jesus invent the currancy back then? no, it existed before him. so doesn't it seem odd that him and his posse suddenly change the offering system that had worked since the beginning of human society? ++corruption from the beginning++

and i've yet to have been to a catholic church where people are told...

" donatation are taken only in cash, all other forms of dontations such as volunteer work are not accepted"

[FORSAKENR320]

and i've yet to have been to a catholic church where people are told...

" donatation are taken only in cash, all other forms of dontations such as volunteer work are not accepted"

offering plate






stick your volunteer work in that

[woody]

go to church

see how many people don't stick money in it

[woody]

oh and by the way...

the people who go up and down the isles giving the offering plate...

ya...volunteers

[Erik B.]

it's just that many of the things catholics believe, aren't in the bible at all. i can't believe something that a priest (ordinary man) or pope (ordinary man) tells me. another thing is the catechism. the bible states plain and simple NOT to add anything to the bible, or you'll burn in the lake of fire or something. and of course, catholics decided to add another whole book on rules and stuff. i just don't buy it.
the more men you have = corruptness+++

Have you ever read the Catechism? So much of what you'll find there is scripturally based. It just goes into greater detail to help us understand the scriptures. It explains how, scripturally and traditionally, we Catholics came to believe what we do.

Also, the Catholic Church didn't add any books to the bible. The Protestants removed 7 of them them, though. I guess removing books is ok, so long as you don't add any?

Both Protestant and Catholic Bibles have the same number of books in the New Testament: 27.
However, Catholic Bibles have 7 extra books, and here's why:

Around 2200 years ago (so obviously before Jesus' time), Jewish scholars put together all of the Jewish Scriptures - what we call the Old Testament. There were 46 books, called the Septuagint, that were accepted until about 100 A.D. At that time, the Jewish leaders decided to get rid of the non-Hebrew books, of which there were seven.

This change was after Jesus' life, however. So He would have known all 46. And those 46 + 27 New Testament books=73.

So these 73 were accepted as the Bible for almost 1500 years, when Martin Luther began the Protestant Reformation. Because there were not Hebrew manuscripts known at the time, he changed the Bible from 46 to 39 books...and that's why there's 7 less books there today.

[FORSAKENR320]

oh and by the way...

the people who go up and down the isles giving the offering plate...

ya...volunteers

those "volunteers" fulfill the job requirements for a typical sermon. in less strict churches, those plates are passed by children of the church. in more strict churches, deacons are allowed that privilage. becoming a deacon isn't something you are just one day allowed to do, it's a rank you earn through dedication and you have to be elected. i myself am a deacon, the youngest ever elected by my church at the age of 18. before that the youngest was my father, at the age of 34
duties include strong leadership and motivational purposes to fellow members of the church. dedication to increasing the church populous, officiating over church events, specific duties during services, and performing tasks to better help the pastor with his service to the church.



it is not "volunteer work" and you know very well that volunteering has nothing to do with the discussion of offerings. we are talking about monitary and materialistic offerings, the offerings of time and spirit are valid, but not being questioned here

[Erik B.]

as i stated before, offerings were done in cattle, and crops


later, even salt



the most common sacrifices were that of grains, in remberance of God's favoritism of Abel

and yes, the money changers WERE kicked out, but their job ORIGINATED by taking the crops, cattle and salt, and bartering it for the equivelent in currancy, then converting it to shekels. farm folk didn't just walk around with hard cash, dude..... literacy, math and writing skills were usually only obtained by the well off people, the poor folk needed the merchant class in order to deal with such matters, and thus it was exploited


learn ALL of the shit you're talking about, don't pick and choose what you think sounds convieniant to your arguement

A required offering is still a required offering, even when your only form of currency is crops and livestock. However you look at it, they were required to pay money to atone for their sins.

I don't put money into the offering plate usually. But I do give to the church through volunteering, and they gladly accept that from me.

[FORSAKENR320]

A required offering is still a required offering, even when your only form of currency is crops and livestock. However you look at it, they were required to pay money to atone for their sins.

I don't put money into the offering plate usually. But I do give to the church through volunteering, and they gladly accept that from me.

you completely missed the entire point of the discussion

come back when you can follow a conversation


YOU ARE THE WEAKEST LINK



GOODBYE

[Erik B.]

you completely missed the entire point of the discussion

come back when you can follow a conversation


YOU ARE THE WEAKEST LINK



GOODBYE

That's my favorite way to end an argument.

BAH... YOU JUST DON'T GET IT.... BYE! I'M SO MUCH SMARTER THAN YOU!

[GOB]

those "volunteers" fulfill the job requirements for a typical sermon. in less strict churches, those plates are passed by children of the church. in more strict churches, deacons are allowed that privilage. becoming a deacon isn't something you are just one day allowed to do, it's a rank you earn through dedication and you have to be elected. i myself am a deacon, the youngest ever elected by my church at the age of 18. before that the youngest was my father, at the age of 34
duties include strong leadership and motivational purposes to fellow members of the church. dedication to increasing the church populous, officiating over church events, specific duties during services, and performing tasks to better help the pastor with his service to the church.



it is not "volunteer work" and you know very well that volunteering has nothing to do with the discussion of offerings. we are talking about monitary and materialistic offerings, the offerings of time and spirit are valid, but not being questioned here

i believe he was talking about catholic church. and they are volunteers.

[Seeker]

those "volunteers" fulfill the job requirements for a typical sermon. in less strict churches, those plates are passed by children of the church. in more strict churches, deacons are allowed that privilage. becoming a deacon isn't something you are just one day allowed to do, it's a rank you earn through dedication and you have to be elected. i myself am a deacon, the youngest ever elected by my church at the age of 18. before that the youngest was my father, at the age of 34
duties include strong leadership and motivational purposes to fellow members of the church. dedication to increasing the church populous, officiating over church events, specific duties during services, and performing tasks to better help the pastor with his service to the church.



it is not "volunteer work" and you know very well that volunteering has nothing to do with the discussion of offerings. we are talking about monitary and materialistic offerings, the offerings of time and spirit are valid, but not being questioned here

i pity your church!

[Seeker]

the most common sacrifices were that of grains, in remberance of God's favoritism of Abel

god has favorites? that doesn't sound like a loving/forgiving/merciful/nice god