fuckin' christians Options

[Seeker]

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...k.21192740.html

Pair fights church on sharing confessions

Exclusive: Watermark says telling others of sins is in bylaws

08:05 AM CDT on Friday, May 26, 2006

By MICHAEL GRABELL and JEFFREY WEISS / The Dallas Morning News

Does a church have the right to publicly reveal a person's private sins? A Dallas court is being asked to decide whether Watermark Community Church can do exactly that to a man and a woman identified in court records as "John Doe" and "Jane Roe."

Their attorney says that the pair thought they had revealed their sins to Watermark's pastor confidentially and that their behavior should not be made public.

Church officials say they are only following a process of church discipline outlined in the Gospel of Matthew and written into the church's bylaws.

"Basically, we're being sued because we're seeking to love 'John Doe' in accordance with the principles outlined by God's word," said the pastor, the Rev. Todd Wagner.

Neither church officials nor the pair's attorney would specify the behavior involved.

Leaders of the northeast Dallas church said they recently became aware that "John Doe," who joined the church more than a year ago, was "having some struggles in his walk with Christ," Mr. Wagner said.

Church elders began the process of "care and correction" described in Matthew: Confront the person one to one, then with several others, then "tell it to the church." At every step, the person is asked to stop the offending behavior.

In this case, the man refused the private interventions and said he was quitting the church, church officials said. But Watermark's bylaws say a member "may not resign from membership in an attempt to avoid such care and correction."

Watermark's next step would have been to send more than a dozen letters to people who know "John Doe" – half to Watermark members and half to members of other churches who know and have worked with him.

That's when the lawsuit was filed.

"The basis of the lawsuit was the church wanted to go outside of the church and the community at large, including potentially even their employers," said Jeff Tillotson, attorney for the man and woman.

They obtained a temporary restraining order April 28, preventing the church from releasing information about them.

But the order was dismissed May 5 by Associate Judge Sheryl McFarlin after Watermark's lawyers argued that it violated the church's right to freely exercise its religion.

The case is winding its way through appeals.

Mr. Tillotson said the case holds major implications for church members in the Dallas-Fort Worth area.

"The typical notion of a Dallasite is that if you don't like a church, you can just leave, and that's that is apparently not shared by some of these churches," he said. "And then when you say I want to get off this merry-go-round, their response is you can't quit to avoid discipline."

E-mail jweiss@dallasnews.com and mgrabell@dallasnews.com

Watermark Community church says it relies on this New Testament passage to justify its policy of disciplining members:

"If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector."

Matthew 18:15-17

[Psykopath]

That is fucking insane. I hope (and believe they will) they win the lawsuit.

Those idiots are fucking with their work life and private lives as a whole. And they claim they can't leave the church?! Oh man, I forgot just how "tolerant" certain sects of Christianity can be... (as are many other religions)

[Dogmeat]

anybody stupid enough to "confess" to a priest deserves what they get ...

[GOB]

anybody stupid enough to "confess" to a priest deserves what they get ...

haha wow. pathetic.

[Dogmeat]

I'm sorry, but "Confession" is fucking retarded.

You're supposed to tell a priest everything you do wrong, thus feeding every perverted desire a man could possibly have in life.

And people act shocked priests molest children?

Huh?

The guy gets free live Penthouse Forum every fucking day and you're honestly gonna tell me he's not a pervert?

Fucking christ confession exists for the sole purpose of priests getting their rocks off, not because god wants you to do anything.....

Yet another prime example of organized relegion bastardizing faith.

[GOB]

and what does that have to do with this article?


you're a fucking retard, by the way.

[jonathan83]

I'm sorry, but "Confession" is fucking retarded.

one of the many reasons i'm not catholic

[Spectatrix]

I'm sorry, but "Confession" is fucking retarded.

You're supposed to tell a priest everything you do wrong, thus feeding every perverted desire a man could possibly have in life.

I may agree, but that has nothing to do with this article. This is not a Catholic church.... Catholic priests are bound by "the seal of the confessional" to not reveal anything that's confessed to them, even if the confession is about a serious law violation.

[pebkac]

"Basically, we're being sued because we're seeking to love 'John Doe' in accordance with the principles outlined by God's word," said the pastor, the Rev. Todd Wagner.

Is it just me or does anyone else think this guy is a douchebag?

[Spectatrix]

Is it just me or does anyone else think this guy is a douchebag?

I think the point of this thread is to point that out, actually.

[FORSAKENR320]

i'd like to know the actual history of the confession. not the religious reason, but the social reason.



i'm pretty sure it has something to do with keeping an eye on the social situation in smaller societies. we scoff at the idea of confessing our sins in this day, but you have no idea how much influence the catholic church had several centuries ago.

[pebkac]

I think the point of this thread is to point that out, actually.

You and your logic.

[Erik B.]

one of the many reasons i'm not catholic

Confessions is one of the many reasons that I am Catholic.

But as has been pointed out, this article is not about a Catholic church. The priest is bound to not reveal what is said in the confessional in the Catholic church.

What I'm trying to figure out is this: Did the couple come to the pastor and reveal the sins, or did the church "discover" that the couple was sinning and attempted a one-on-one intervention and began the process as laid out in Matthew? I mean, it's one thing to go to a priest/pastor in confidence and expect that to be held secret, but in a way, the church is obeying its faith by going through the steps as laid out in the Gospel.

Not saying it's right. Just trying to figure out the circumstances.

[Dogmeat]

god is a moist vagina

[Seeker]

Confessions is one of the many reasons that I am Catholic.

But as has been pointed out, this article is not about a Catholic church.  The priest is bound to not reveal what is said in the confessional in the Catholic church.

you mean so you can fuck, cheat, lie, steal, kill fetuses, and make fun of the mentally handicapped - confess it all on sunday and then repeat it all again the following week?