DOJ to drop bomb on EFF vs. AT&T Options

[zetec]

wasn't this discussed a really long time ago? good God people they spied on like 500 people. it was probably a spur of the moment thing and they thought there was a real threat. it makes sense for immediate action if the threat is bad enough.

500 people? The FBI alone this year asked for over 3000 secret wiretaps, and we can only assume that those numbers aren't made up. If the public FBI asks for 3000, would it not be logical that the "secret" NSA would be likely to have even more?

[Spectatrix]

it makes sense for immediate action if the threat is bad enough.

No it doesn't, considering that FISA can grant retroactive wiretaps. If they have to start wiretapping immediately, they have 72 hours from the start to go talk to the FISA court. To me, retroactive wiretaps aren't ideal, but it still means they can slap people down if they're wiretapping without cause.

[impala454]

No it doesn't, considering that FISA can grant retroactive wiretaps.  If they have to start wiretapping immediately, they have 72 hours from the start to go talk to the FISA court.  To me, retroactive wiretaps aren't ideal, but it still means they can slap people down if they're wiretapping without cause.

i just don't really get the point of "retroactive permission". asking for permission to do something you've already done is pretty pointless imo.

and zetec... even if it is 3000, we're still talking about an infinitesimal percentage of the population... it doesn't bother me at all, especially when there's a possibility to save thousands of lives in a thwarted attack. why does it bother you so much?

[pebkac]

i just don't really get the point of "retroactive permission".  asking for permission to do something you've already done is pretty pointless imo.

and zetec... even if it is 3000, we're still talking about an infinitesimal percentage of the population... it doesn't bother me at all, especially when there's a possibility to save thousands of lives in a thwarted attack.  why does it bother you so much?

Well, it would prevent the FBI and NSA from wiretapping people without reason. If it's found that the wire was invalid, then it can't be used in court. Really, I don't see why the Bush admin would want to circumvent the court anyway. According to wikipedia:

It is also rare for FISA warrant requests to be turned down by the court. Through the end of 2004, 18,761 warrants were granted, while just five were rejected (many sources say four). Fewer than 200 requests had to be modified before being accepted, almost all of them in 2003 and 2004.

If they can't get authorization from a court that almost always grants wiretap authorizations, something has to be wrong.

Not to mention that there's no reason why they couldn't have gotten the authorization to do so at any time:

Due to the nature of the matters heard before it, FISC hearings may need to take place at any time of day or night, weekdays or weekends; thus, at least one judge must be "on call" at all times to hear evidence and decide whether or not to issue a warrant.

[Spectatrix]

If they can't get authorization from a court that almost always grants wiretap authorizations, something has to be wrong.

[Billy]

Hey, let's arrest communists while we're at it. It won't really matter if it's just or not since it's only an infinitesimal percentage of the population. And gays. And non christians for being heretics.

Afterall, majority rules.

[chook]

i just don't really get the point of "retroactive permission". asking for permission to do something you've already done is pretty pointless imo.

Its a check that makes sure that there was a good cause to wiretap in the first place

[Divergent Realit...]

Hey, let's arrest communists while we're at it. It won't really matter if it's just or not since it's only an infinitesimal percentage of the population. And gays. And non christians for being heretics.

Afterall, majority rules.

am i gonna have to beat the shit out of the biggest badass in the prison now?

[woody]

domestic spying has been going on for along time, shit pre dates US history

it's nothing new, i dont lose sleep over it. i really don't care.

the fact that it's not even concrete if it's legal or illegal makes me care even less.

laws are so ambiguous its disgusting

[zetec]

and zetec... even if it is 3000, we're still talking about an infinitesimal percentage of the population... it doesn't bother me at all, especially when there's a possibility to save thousands of lives in a thwarted attack. why does it bother you so much?

that is possibly the stupidest thing i've ever heard.

for one, there's a very good chance the NSA isn't there to stop terrorism -- homeland security is the one doing the taps through the FISA court for that.

two, i'm just talking about the FBI there. not Homeland Security or the NSA.

three, oh wow, 3000 isn't much. but we also don't know WHY they are being tapped or what they're suspected of, if anything. for all we know, the only people being tapped by the NSA are people that the government sees as "enemies", and i don't mean the blowie-shit-up kind. I'm talking "deepthroat" kind, or members of the ACLU or the EFF.

four, what happened to innocent until proven guilty?

seriously, thats some dumb fucking logic right there. we have a court system, it grants approval to almost everything. there's no reason for them NOT to use that. yes, domestic spying has been going on a long time, and there's a LEGAL way for them to do it. If they're having to circumvent those means, there's something else going on that we should probably look into.






btw, "States Secrets Privelege" is technically only common law, hopefully the judge in this case (characterized as a "free thinker" by some article i read earlier today and don't have offhand) will actually refuse the request by the DOJ to dismiss the case... which has never been done before, but is nonetheless his privelege.

[impala454]

Its a check that makes sure that there was a good cause to wiretap in the first place

right, so what do you think they'd do if there was no good cause found to wiretap the individual, and yet found out they were going to set off a nuclear bomb tomorrow?

[impala454]

that is possibly the stupidest thing i've ever heard.

zetec, any time i see crap like this i'm not going to even bother reading the rest of your post.

[Psykopath]

zetec, any time i see crap like this i'm not going to even bother reading the rest of your post.

yet you answer that line in a similar fashion...?

weeeeee, internetz!

[impala454]

yet you answer that line in a similar fashion...?

weeeeee, internetz!

how so? was just telling him i'm not reading posts that start off like that. what's the problem w/that?

[Psykopath]

how so? was just telling him i'm not reading posts that start off like that. what's the problem w/that?

I don't know...I just see it as a cop-out.

but whatever.

WIRETAPS FOR EVERYONE