Proof that racism is alive and well Options

[impala454]

naw, what'd he say? there a youtube somewhere?

[Inferia]

take japan and korea for example. i know for a fact there are certain shops, clubs, etc. that have "foreigners not allowed" in them purely because of race. some races OTHER THAN WHITES seriously do believe their race is superior. in china, there are tons of races mixed together, so racism exists there too. there were just reports this week about the uyghurs being killed in large numbers. the main race, the han, seems similar to the whites in america. they're the majority, don't get as much flak, etc. or so what i've read and observed. inferia, i'd like to know your take on that, since i have this hunch that you're of the han race (sorry if i'm completely off though).

There is racism everywhere you go in this world, it is to some degree unavoidable. America, is near the forefront of the race discussion, though I'm don't believe I would be right in saying that it is in the forefront of handling the "race issue". The majority of Chinese people you will meet in your life will be of the Han ethnicity, there are a whole bunch of other minority groups in China, but they make up only about 10% of the country. How I view China's take on race is kind of two folds, one is how people view race and the other is how the government view race. There is a slight discrepancy as to how the government want to view race and difference in race in China, but people for most part don't understand that there is an race issue. Much of what I feel like the people's understanding (include many people in the government, I don't know where the "cut off" is) of race is comparable to what of the more what I consider ignorant people in this country when it comes to race. Whereas the big difference is that at least more people here not only acknowledge race, but many actually do understand the race problem. There the number of people who would acknowledge that there is a race problem (in that the majority has a problem) is very few and far in between. Which in it self is more of the problem. Their exists to some degree affirmative action for minority, I can't remember they have a quota system or a lower of test score system (your ability to get into college is essentially based on one test score). They can have more children than rest of the city Hans, there are a few more, but I can't think of it. In Han's eyes, these are privileges that exists in for the minority and here is when things get tricky.

We should talk briefly about the concept of White Privilege. There have been extensive talk on the white privilege in this country, which is what much of the affirmative action stuff is based on. It is assumed that as a white person, we're not talking about a rich white person or a poor white person here (of course there are privileges attributed to wealth), we're talking about the color of your skin, has an easier time finding a job, a nice area to live, your kind of food in the supermarket, the assumption that you don't speak for your race, these are privileges that are not afforded to minorities. So a similar kind of privilege program works in China, though probably in a much unfortunate sense. Someone from the Han group will have an easier time finding work because it is very easy for them to find someone who is of a han background, and chances are that person will get the job over a minority. Hans are generally wealthier, they can always find a living space where is people of their ethnicity, where people will accept them purely based on race. Many do not really see this as a privilege that is unearned based on their race. Whereas for the 56 other minority groups, it will be more difficult for them to find a job, more difficult to find a place so they can have their way of life, a school where their kids can learn in their native language. The text books will talk about all the great things that Hans have done to make the country great, the tests are written by hans. In the end, you're starting at a further back starting point at birth if you were born a minority. All these problems exist in this country, but the big difference is that many people recognizes these invisible privileges, if only some of them. Whereas there, the belief is much more homogeneous.

Though I must disagree with you that many Americans don't realize that other countries or people in other countries can be racist. I think many believe that other people are too racist and try to use that as a justification for racism in this country. I've heard comments such as don't you think Mexicans are racist? Ultimately that's not the point, I personally don't think people should (or at least aim to try) justify their actions and attitudes based on the ignorance of another group of people.

[impala454]

We should talk briefly about the concept of White Privilege. There have been extensive talk on the white privilege in this country, which is what much of the affirmative action stuff is based on. It is assumed that as a white person, we're not talking about a rich white person or a poor white person here (of course there are privileges attributed to wealth), we're talking about the color of your skin, has an easier time finding a job, a nice area to live, your kind of food in the supermarket, the assumption that you don't speak for your race, these are privileges that are not afforded to minorities.

This is absolutely preposterous. These are perceptions, not privileges. There's a massive difference between the two. You seem to think that having a coined term makes it valid.

"Your kind of food in the supermarket"??!?! Are you kidding me? What "kind of food" is "white" food??!? What "kind of food" is "black" food? People like you, who continue to segregate people through your completely wacky perceptions, are the ones prolonging racial tension in this country. As soon as people like you stop seeing different "types of food" at the supermarket or assuming that a hiring or anything else that happens in a person's life is due to race, we will begin to see racial harmony here.

People who have mediocre lives and no ambition tend to try to find excuses for their mediocrity. Whether it's blaming their race, their parents, their luck, it's always anything but themselves. Your concept of "white privelege" does nothing but help mediocre people find excuses to remain mediocre. How many people who lead successful lives, regardless of their skin color, do you think were sitting around crying about "white privelege" their whole lives?

Oh and one more thing on food. Food IS segregated. There are different types of food. It's stupid to try to think that food somehow should be harmonious in a grocery store. Food is based on culture. Sure, some ingredients may blend between various cultures, but it still makes sense to separate Mexican food from Chinese food from Italian food. It has absolutely nothing to do with the customers, although quantities of food do depend on the customer base. you do generally see if an area has more hispanics, there's more of that type of food. It makes sense! DUH. It's not because the manager is shunning other types of customers it's because they sell more of it to those types! But your perception (not privelege) is the other way around (and wrong). It is so incredibly laughable to me that you should even point something like this out in a racial discussion, and shows the lack of thinking in your ideas.

[THECHICKEN]

Damn, impala beat me to it... lol

Food ...

[Inferia]

Okay, fine. Lets take black and white out of it. Lets just create a situation of an unknown race. Many of us believe that we should raise our kids a certain way so the kids can grow up to be a certain way. We don't let them eat candy before dinner because it creates a poor habit. We tell them to say thank you and please. We tell them to work hard to achieve a better life. Perhaps much of this is based on experience of the parents. That when we don't eat candy before dinner, we can grow to be a healthier adults, we worry about obesity less. We say thank and please, we work hard to achieve a better life because from experience of the parents and the people like the parents that working hard will give them a better life, that being polite will get you things life. And also for parents to neglect their kids, who abuse their kids, there will be consequences. Their kid will grow up not doing will in school, that their kid will have time surviving in this society, maybe the kid will be lazy since they didn't grow up with the mind set that when one works hard that they will get something. Maybe they will know that when they do something wrong, they will get severely punished, maybe they don't want to get beat up so they lie. Maybe if a whole generation of people grew up believing that no matter what they do, there's no way out. No matter how hard they work, they will always be looked at as criminals. What do you tell your kids in this situation? Son, work hard in school, because once you get out in the real world, people will treat you fairly? Because son, it hasn't, it hasn't treated your father fairly. Your father worked hard, but was the first to be laid off. Your father was polite, but people were still rude to me. Your father believe that no matter the color of your skin, people won't judge you because they think the less of you. No. That did not happen to your father. Your father was dragged down, kicked, and made believe that he was and never will be as good as the others. How would this effect a child? How would the thought of this at a very young age make one feel? Sometimes I can only imagine, but most of the time, I know...

You may believe that white privilege is fictional. You may believe that it is an excuse for the weak. I don't care to change your mind, I don't care what you believe in. But when you have kids, you can look into their eyes, and think about the words you say to them. And think about all those other kids in the world who are not hearing what they're hearing. And think about what would it be like if you were to believe no matter how hard you work, you will still get the short end of the stick, and think what they would grow up to be like.

[THECHICKEN]

There is a vast majority of minorities in prison over whites. It is a little easier for whites to succeed in life (in certain areas of the country), and the country was founded by white men. You want to talk about that i guess. What others are trying to say is that we aren't in the 60's anymore. Dogs and water cannons aren't used on minorities anymore. The zuit suit riots are long gone, and we don't need national gaurd to allow kids into schools. Hell the first latino is going to the supreme court, a black man has made president and being called a racist can END your public career nowadays.

How long does it take before the white man can stop saying sorry to other races for things he didn't do wrong?

[cmac]

naw, what'd he say? there a youtube somewhere?

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-july...hite-house-m-d-

[impala454]

Inferia, what you don't understand is that white people DO overachieve their parents, just like black people do and any other race does. There's no segregation along those lines. I am not even 30 yet and I already make more money than either of my parents ever have. I did not have my money handed to me on a silver platter. I had to go knee deep in loans to get my education, and work hard to gain the experience that earned me my money. Anyone who wants to can go to college, if they're willing to risk their success on taking loans. In fact, the poorer you are the easier it is to get loans or even grants for college. My father did not go to college. None of his six siblings went to college. They grew up poor and eating beans and such. But they overachieved their parents as well. I'm certain that if/when I have kids they'll overachieve me as well. It's the nature of human beings to do so. Not just white people like you seem to think.

You make an extremely valid point about parenting. But the question I ask you is, what in the bleepity bleepin bleep does that have to do with race? Does a minority parent have less "privilege" as you so call it to be a good parent and teach their kids right from wrong, or instill ambition into them rather than mediocrity?!? Trust me, being a bad parent is not limited to any race, skin color, nationality, income level, any line you want to draw.

Also, if you don't care what I think or believe, why are we still having this conversation?

[woody]

Your father worked hard, but was the first to be laid off. Your father was polite, but people were still rude to me. Your father believe that no matter the color of your skin, people won't judge you because they think the less of you. No. That did not happen to your father. Your father was dragged down, kicked, and made believe that he was and never will be as good as the others. How would this effect a child? How would the thought of this at a very young age make one feel? Sometimes I can only imagine, but most of the time, I know...

You may believe that white privilege is fictional. You may believe that it is an excuse for the weak. I don't care to change your mind, I don't care what you believe in. But when you have kids, you can look into their eyes, and think about the words you say to them. And think about all those other kids in the world who are not hearing what they're hearing. And think about what would it be like if you were to believe no matter how hard you work, you will still get the short end of the stick, and think what they would grow up to be like.

have you overachieved your parents?

[Inferia]

Last year, in front of my office on campus there was some multicultural program. They asked people to take a step forward or backward based on what it was like for them when growing up. They asked questions like if their parents had to work multiple jobs to support the family. One of the questions that was asked was whether if their parents told them that if they worked hard, they can be anything they want to be. Some people took a step forward, and many took a step back. I was watching by the side since I just got back from the library. I felt like I wanted to take a step back. I remember since I came to this country, my dad telling me that I will never be like one of them, that I will never fit in, that there are things I just can't be. That left a very heavy impact on my heart. Growing up, I never fit like I could be friends with Americans, namely white people. Around them, I felt smaller, I felt like the stuff I did and the things I knew was weird and not interesting. To some degree it was ironic that my only friends in hs were asian since for a longtime before that I was very wary about being asian people. That somehow being around asian people, people will see me as asian. That people will think less of me. I guess I found comfort amongst Asian people, I knew that at least around them, I didn't have to worry about being judged, I didn't have to feel smaller than them. I did okay in school, but these days I understand the bias there exists in schooling. I wasn't the most stellar student in hs or in college, but I believe I wasn't too bad. In part I know that is because my parents are both educated, and the deep rooted feeling of over a millennium for Chinese people that if they do well in school, they can achieve greatness, even the communist couldn't get rid of this one, not that they tried. And that is what I was told to do, and I guess when you're young, you do what you are told. Especially the one that is raised in the chinese mindset. Anyway, it wasn't until college, where I started feeling like I could be friends with white people, that they won't judge me. That people are very different, my difference is just one of them. I don't think I had good white friends until grad school. At times, I still feel like when I don't know something, or make some food that's a little bit different, they are going to look at me, and I'll feel like I'm less of a person.

I know these issues are not isolated to me. Lots of people of every race deal with self-esteem issues for being a little big, for being a little short, being a little less than not good enough, and it is hard. However, if you place the history of how your parents were raised growing up, their experiences, especially if they were educated, they were told they can't succeed, that if even if they try, they will never make it in this white world, things add up. You create layers upon layers of issues, and it is hard. In the end, I think it's these hardships that makes it less-likely for people to succeed. In the end there are lots of things in this life that is unfair. There have been study done on how tall people are more likely to succeed than people who are short, they make more money and I guess according to these studies that they are happier. That's one of these things that is unfair across the world - being born tall is an inherent advantage over people who are short. It's not to say that short people never succeed, or get the girl, but when it comes down to it, many short men feel like they are not as good. If you add on bald, you are even a little worse off. Is it fair that the short, bald men keep getting the short end of the stick about something they have no control over? Are they less of a human being? Can't they learn and become very valuable members of society? I think most people would agree that they can. But when short, bald men are systematically being looked over for promotions, for marriage, for that leading-man role, then there's something wrong. It's not to say there's something evil about tall men with a full head of hair, but they have to realize that there's something unfair. That just because they're going home with that girl over their shorter, balder friend, it doesn't make them a superior human being. It's just a privilege society has given them, a privilege they have in this world that they did not earn.

Today we had to move some furniture around in one of my other offices. The building manager came in to asked us if we had helped them move the stuff around. Namely, he talked to the white guy in the room. I was sitting right beside him and I've been in this building for almost 9 years now. Even though most of me feel like it is because we haven't interacted that much, he may not know my name, I couldn't help feeling if that guy was looking right past me because I'm Asian. I've worked in groups with people, where the company or manager person automatically started talking to the white male in the group, then the white female, then the none white male, then lastly, the none white female, even in the case where I've done a vast majority of the work. You look at the person in charge, many times it's a white male, you just feel a little smaller, a little less confident in what you have to say. But in the end, it those who do the talking get the credit. Perhaps you can say that it is my fault for not speaking up, but knowing all the tough times and insecurities when it comes to having been brought up/grown up a certain way, I really have trouble believing in that.

I think saying that I can care if you understood or not, or if you agreed or not, maybe the wrong statement. I guess I should've said that I know I can't make you understand or agree. It's something you have to come to agreement your self.

[THECHICKEN]

Sounds pretty Self-fulfilling to me. You believe that the world is a certain way, then look at situations to find it. Don't want to sound mean, but thats just the way it seems to me.

You yourself say that you naturally migrated to other asians because it makes you more comfortable. Its human nature to migrate to others that are similar. Yet you also make yourself feel bad or lessor because of this when it is done by another (maybe the white guy talking to the white guy was doing the human nature thing of going with what he knows because he was uncomfortable talking infront of a number of people). Theres no bias or ill will in it as im sure you don't feel more comfortable around asians as a way to say you hate whites. If it is something you yourself do and understand (you obviously try to be educated on the subject) then why is the "privilege" a "white privilege"? If i went to asia (or hell even asia-town) as a white male would i not feel the same as a you around whites? Should we expand the conversation to "asian privilege"?

[Mommy]

I just can't believe anyone had the attention span to read her dissertations. Oh well. I don't really care about this topic anyway.

[FORSAKENR320]

inferia... try finding me a Poor White Male scholarship, or a White Entertainment Television Channel, or a White History Month. then start talking about "white privelege"

[impala454]

It's so easy to see where your coming from now inferia. You had a "tough" childhood just like everyone else in existence. In that same room full of people, ask everyone to raise their hand who had a rough childhood. My guess is that 95% of the people raise their hand. The only difference with you and others who think like you is that you blame it on your race/skin color/whatever, vs some blamed it on them being fat, some blamed it on them being poor, some blamed it on being ugly, some blamed it on them not being smart, or funny, or social, or whatever. The sad part is, you still do not realize, it was all YOU. Only you could have changed your situation. It sounds like you did do that, but just didn't do it until college. Guess what, kids grow up, they mature. Read our own post for God's sake. The whole time what are you talking about? Your feelings about how other people were, not the other people's feelings. So you see, this whole concept of "white privilege" is not in fact privilege, it's just your own lousy perceptions and copouts. It's like those people who cry about being single, but also never ask anyone out, and then look for excuses for reasons they're single. I think you need to take a large look inward before you start placing blame outward.

[Mommy]

You know, people think that white people aren't victims of racism, and we are. When I was 14 years old, I lived in El Paso, TX, a community nearing 1 million people and is 87% Hispanic. I worked for the Red Cross at a military hospital. I had some Mexican girls tell my supervisor that I smelled horrible and they refused to work in the same room with me ever again. I had only worked in their department for less than a day, I had showered that morning, and my clothes were clean. Not a single one of them even looked at me or spoke to me when I was first introduced to them when I moved into their department. My supervisor pulled me aside to tell me that she felt she could resolve the situation if I went home and showered. I told her to smell me. She said that she already had and that I smelled pretty good actually. She called the department and told them that I was going to go home and shower and that I would be back. They told me supervisor that they didn't want me back in there even if I showered. I KNOW it was the color of my skin. I was there as a VOLUNTEER and the other girls my age were there as part of some government program that would give them money because they were low income.

Everyone has their stories, Inferia. It's America. You just have to get some tough skin and deal with it.