Impala/Oasis BitchFest 2009, Someone call the waahbulance! Options

[Spectatrix]

Nice rebuttal with the sales numbers.

Weird side note... I'm sure you heard some months ago that GM is dropping a bunch of brands in order to cut costs and focus on core business. One of those lines is Saturn, which I'd always understood to be wildly popular/successful. Read somewhere that they hadn't made money on the brand in like 10 years. Why in god's name would they take a loss on a brand line for over a DECADE?!? I'm a little too rational to want to warp my brain looking at their financials, but even the little bit I hear about blows my fucking mind.

[Spectatrix]

Oh, here's a Consumer Reports thing I found real quick: http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/ne...nd-worst-ov.htm

On the overall best/worst, only one domestic in top cars (Corvette Z06), two foreign in worst (Smart ForTwo -- does this even count as a vehicle really, lol? and Toyota FJ Cruiser).

Will you concede that currently, foreign quality is generally (but not always) better? That doesn't mean domestic totally sucks (I was using hyperbole earlier), but that foreign usually edges domestic out. I am certainly willing to concede that quality impacts sales less than I thought, based on the numbers you provided in your last post.

This post has been edited by Spectatrix: Apr 2 2009, 02:49 PM

[impala454]

I appreciate how compromising you're being but I can't concede that generally foreign cars are better. For the same reasons you gave to the opposite. I knew a lot of people at my last two jobs who had various foreign cars (Nissan Altima, Audi A4, Nissan Frontier to be exact) who had non-stop problems with the things. The Audi guy was getting his transmission worked on all the time, the Altima had CV joint and alternator issues, the Frontier had 4WD issues. Now, as I mentioned before I think maintenance has a lot to do with it. I know the Audi guy & Altima guy did not do a good job of maintinence. On the flip side of that, my family has owned nothing but GM vehicles my entire life, and gone above and beyond as far as maintinence goes. Every car we've had, we've kept for at least 10 years, and never had any major issues. We had a 15 year old Chevy Lumina with 175,000 miles on it that the only part that was ever replaced was shocks, struts, and alternator (all things you'll replace on any car if you keep it long enough). But I've seen some Luminas the same age that were being held together with duct tape. Now this doesn't make me believe that domestic cars are better. It just doesn't make me believe the hype that foreign cars are some large step above domestic in terms of quality. Or any step up at all really.

As far as Consumer Reports goes, you may accuse me of attacking your source, but I've never been a big fan of them. But specifically regarding what you posted (of course without being able to click the links, as I'm not a subscriber), look at what they're comparing. Do you think it makes sense to compare a Corvette to a Minivan to a 3/4 ton pickup? What exactly is it that makes a Toyota Sienna score 1 point higher than a Corvette??

I'm just curious Christine, other than a list of Consumer Reports opinions or your own personal experiences, is there something else that helps you arrive at your conclusion that foreign > domestic? It just seems to me more of a brand loyalty kind of thing, which I'm sure you'd hate me saying that, but I think we all do it a bit. If someone asks me for a TV recommendation, I usually tell them Samsung. They're a great TV, but so are a few other brands. A Sony or Toshiba might be just as good, but given those three brands I'd choose the Samsung. I've owned a lot of their displays so that's what I go with. People on AVS will chat 'til their blue in the face trying to convince each other that "their" brand is 0.05% better than someone else's. It all just seems silly to me.

I think if you do your research on the specific vehicle you want, buy it brand new, and take good care of it, it doesn't really matter what brand is stamped into the side or what soil it was manufactured on.

[chook]

I agree with Will (yes, I said it). He may be a dumbfuck about a lot of things, but he's right that foreign cars are largely superior to American ones. Ford is decent, but GM and Chrysler suck. Yes, part of their failure is due to the UAW, but their vehicle quality also leaves a lot to be desired.

One of my exes worked for Jeep. She said the problem is that the UAW wouldn't let them use new designs cause they didn't want to learn a new process. Seriously, some people think they should get paid for just showing up and not doing a thing.

The thread made me lol.

[Spectatrix]

I'm just curious Christine, other than a list of Consumer Reports opinions or your own personal experiences, is there something else that helps you arrive at your conclusion that foreign > domestic? It just seems to me more of a brand loyalty kind of thing, which I'm sure you'd hate me saying that, but I think we all do it a bit.

My opinion comes from quality reports from a variety of sources over the years, plus my personal experiences and those of friends & family.

I think that for any given year, you're generally going to find that foreign vehicles are higher quality than domestic, BUT... it's highly dependent on the year/make/model. E.g. (totally made-up example), one year Corollas may be the premier budget compact car, but Camry's suck compared to other cars in its class. Definitely should research the specific cars that you're considering rather than just taking brand name loyalty at face value.

That said, my sense is that Japanese/German *cars* tend to rank higher, whereas domestic generally wins out for trucks. (Not sure about SUVs)

[Spectatrix]

All this reminds me... I need to change my Echo's oil sometime soon.

[Psykopath]

Verrrrrry tempted (and probably will) to buy an older model (89-92) Ford Bronco.
Yes, they are gas-guzzlers. But man they are some hardcore and long lasting vehicles.
I could camp pretty much anywhere, yay!


::EDIT TO BE ON TOPIC::

FUCK UAW!

This post has been edited by Psykopath: Apr 3 2009, 12:55 PM

[Spectatrix]

::EDIT TO BE ON TOPIC::

FUCK UAW!

YEAH!

[pysex]

thread fucking sucks

oh and foreign cars win

[HMWH]

But soft, what light through yonder window breaks?

[Spectatrix]

It is the east, and Juliet is the sun.

[impala454]

this is supposed to be a bitchfest thread, not faggotry

[THECHICKEN]

this is supposed to be a bitchfest thread, not faggotry

Oh stop your bitching

[impala454]

Stop bitching in the bitchfest thread!??!?

[chook]

How about this, for starters: JD Power & Associates 2008 Initial Quality Study

Let's look at the cars.



Porsche - German
Infiniti - Japanese
Lexus - Japanese
Mercedes-Benz - German
Toyota -Japanese
Mercury - US (Ford)
Honda - Japanese
Ford - US
Jaguar - British
Audi - German
Cadillac - US (GM)
Chevrolet - US (GM)
Hyundai - Korean
Pontiac - US (GM)
Lincoln - US (Ford)
Buick - US (GM)

Nah, it's not a comprehensive assessment of quality, but the top 10 is dominated by Japanese and German automakers, with a couple of appearances by Ford. It's not until #11 that you get to GM.

JD Powers is like the industry slut though. Not all cars are rated, and their ratings seem rather arbitrary. If you look at the dependability overall, Lincon beats Honda.

Ranking only 2 models give them the number 1 seed.
http://www.jdpower.com/autos/porsche/2009