both mccain and obama want a draft Options

[Inferia]

Yes, I'm fine with it. I am someone who understands that there are differences between men and women but that those differences don't necessarily make them unequal. I stand by what I said about women not necessarily having the body to go fight a war. My way around that is women passing the same physical tests as men, if they can do that, then by all means they are qualified.

Oh and about Vietnam, the Vietnamese understood their disadvantages and fought the war differently to compensate.

So why can't we understand our "disadvantages" and fight our wars differently? The point is to win isn't it? Yes, I'm fine with what your saying, but what in the world does it have to do with a draft?

[Dogmeat]

The problem I see in engineering is that a lot of inferior female engineers go up the ranks quicker than guys or other females that are much better.

OMG you have no idea

All they have to do to get there is have a REALLY bitchy attitude too.

[Hartmann]

So why can't we understand our "disadvantages" and fight our wars differently? The point is to win isn't it? Yes, I'm fine with what your saying, but what in the world does it have to do with a draft?

What's wrong with my proposal that women who want to serve in the same positions as men must pass the same physical/mental assessment and training as men? That's equality right? Or is the idea of equality serving in the same positions as men but not being required to do the same work?

My points are completely separate to the draft point. I am not for the draft at all, neither for men or women. People not willing or wanting to serve should not be drafted to fight overseas. Now, if the U.S. mainland is under attack and survival of the country is on the line then I would hope a draft would not be necessary.

[Billy]

When other people's lives depend on your ability to do an "equal" job, hell yes.

And it isn't really earning equality, the training is an exercise in equality and if "equality" is so important, then the women who want to serve should be jumping at the opportunity to take part.

Read the post above mine and then you will see your rebuttal doesn't make sense in this context.

I was, in no way, saying that women (or men) should be allowed to serve in the military without proving their capability to do the job.

[Inferia]

What's wrong with my proposal that women who want to serve in the same positions as men must pass the same physical/mental assessment and training as men? That's equality right? Or is the idea of equality serving in the same positions as men but not being required to do the same work?

My points are completely separate to the draft point. I am not for the draft at all, neither for men or women. People not willing or wanting to serve should not be drafted to fight overseas. Now, if the U.S. mainland is under attack and survival of the country is on the line then I would hope a draft would not be necessary.

There's nothing wrong with your proposal, but your initial statement was not that. It was a general statement of "women being drafted is a bad idea" irregardless of position in the army. Are you retracting your original statement, at least in part?

I'll probably come off as completely sexist but I view it as a reality that men and women are physically different and while some women can bench 250 lbs, most cannot and most women would not make great fighters on the front line of war. It has nothing to do with superiority, just body mechanics. Just like I don't have a body made for child bearing, a woman does not have the body (without serious work) to go out and fight a war. That's not to say that there are not capable women currently serving, I just see women being drafted as a bad idea all around. This country saw what an open draft did during Vietnam, it sent men who were unfit physically to fight a war and most of them didn't come back. You don't throw bodies on the battlefield if you don't have to.

[Mommy]

I don't understand why any of you think drafting women is a good idea. Personally, I know more unstable women by far than I do men. And from a personal point of view, even if women were given a couple months break after bearing a child to be eligible to be drafted again, that wouldn't be enough. Having a baby can physically affect a woman for even a year postpartum. My son will be 3 months old on the 17th, and I still am tired all the time, and drained of nutrients. Granted the tired thing could be my thyroid problem resurfacing for the umpteenth time, but yet again, lower thyroid functions is a side affect for several months after pregnancy. Also, do you realize what kind of outcry there would be if a drafted woman died not knowing she was carrying a baby/fetus (whatever your preference)? Men and women in the military fuck just as much as sorority and frat dudes. It is very feasible that a woman become pregnant and no one, including her, know about it until the perform the autopsy. I hate to admit it to you Inferia and Spex, but women are not built to be in those types of positions. Yes, if we want to VOLUNTARILY subject ourselves to a role that is outside the realm of what is normal for most women, then fine. That's fine. Maybe you see it differently because you have college education under your belt so you would be put in officer positions, which is most often a desk job no matter if you are in combat or not. Other women, however, would be put in harms way even if they are not in combative roles. They are still going to be in non-green zone areas. They are still going to be carrying a weapon. They are still going to be shot at. They are still going to be driving/ escorted in vehicles that are basically human bomb detectors. Seriously, get past the feminist nazi crap and realize that MEN AND WOMEN ARE DIFFERENT.

[Spectatrix]

Awesome, now I'm a feminist nazi. I'll have to add that to the list of other character faults that people have thrown in my direction, like being untrustworthy and a pathological liar because I'm atheist.

[chook]

Awesome, now I'm a feminist nazi. I'll have to add that to the list of other character faults that people have thrown in my direction, like being untrustworthy and a pathological liar because I'm atheist.

no its because you graduated from Tech!

[Mommy]

It is feminazi to think you can or should do everything that man does. If that were the case, you would pee standing up.

[Spectatrix]

And it's sexist to assume that because some women are overly emotional, that an entire gender is unfit for military service.

If there's going to be a draft, all people drafted (male or female) should still have to take various physical and psychological tests and be placed (or rejected) accordingly.

[Mommy]

Women should not be fighting wars. I already stated reasons besides the emotional aspect why they should not.

[Spectatrix]

And I disagree. I do not think that women who are pregnant or have small children should be drafted, but otherwise I think they are capable of serving. I acknowledge that, generally speaking, women are physically weaker than men, but if they can pass the same physical tests as a man, they should be able to serve in the same positions. The same goes for high-stress positions and psychological screenings.

Assuming that men and women are held to the same standards, I don't see why it should be the man's job to fight wars while the women hold down the fort at home.

[Mommy]

And I disagree. I do not think that women who are pregnant or have small children should be drafted, but otherwise I think they are capable of serving. I acknowledge that, generally speaking, women are physically weaker than men, but if they can pass the same physical tests as a man, they should be able to serve in the same positions. The same goes for high-stress positions and psychological screenings.

Assuming that men and women are held to the same standards, I don't see why it should be the man's job to fight wars while the women hold down the fort at home.

"IF THEY CAN PASS THE SAME PHYSICAL TESTS AS A MAN".... you just said it yourself. Women who are not able to pass the same tests as men should not be eligible. Not many women can; therefore, a drafting of women is pointless.

[Spectatrix]

Yeah, I said that in like three posts.

Drafting of women purely for combat positions, or other positions require great physical prowess is largely pointless, yes. Drafting women for the military in general is not. As I pointed out in one of my initial posts, there are a slew of technical, medical, and other support positions that do NOT have the same kind of physical strain as combat roles.

[woody]

women are too emotional to drive
yank their licenses.