Bailouts Options

[dauss]

Sadder is that people *did* see this coming (Ron Paul and possibly others in Congress, certainly several economic watchdogs), but nobody listened.

Welcome to America. Doing nothing until it becomes a disaster.

Isn't this socialism, but in a messed up fudal way?

Well this definitely isn't capitalism and free market anymore.

[Spectatrix]

They've been saying this since what, 1999?

I don't know for sure, but that sounds about right.

[Spectatrix]

If you oppose the $700 billion bank bailout that Congress is trying to throw together, please please please, for the love of god, CALL your representative and senators! It's an expensive mistake that will only serve to further line the pocketbooks of stupid, greedy CEOs.

http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_info...enators_cfm.cfm
http://www.house.gov/


Edit: Side note -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S27yitK32ds

This post has been edited by Spectatrix: Sep 24 2008, 08:54 AM

[chook]

Thanks Spex, I just wrote mine.

[Spectatrix]

Coolio. I figured I might as well get off my ass for once and do something more productive than bitch about politics.

[dauss]

I don't know what will work. Throwing money at this crisis won't fix it, maybe delay it. Doing nothing will be even worse. Saying that we should let these institutions fail is not an option, because it will likely cripple the entire US economy.

[impala454]

Yeah I'm pretty much the same. There's not really enough definitive information for me to form any kind of real opinion on it. I.e. say they just let it go and these mortgage companies go completely tits up. What happens to all those mortgages?? Besides the obvious (the US Govt) what other entity or even large combination of entities has the assets to pick up $700,000,000,000 worth of mortgages? Some other government? Now that, to me, would be much scarier than our govt picking it up. I still just don't know though... I guess I can just pull a Lance and go buy a safe and start buying up gold & silver bullion (have actually been looking into that recently anyhow). And lots of .45 & .357 ammo .

[Psykopath]

I love you 8-bit Theater.

[impala454]

That wasn't even remotely funny.

[Spectatrix]

You don't think the orbital position for a stationary solution of the circular restricted three-body problem is funny? Lame.

[impala454]

Yeah, I am a little lame sometimes. I've learned to live with it.

[nickluto]

I don't know what will work. Throwing money at this crisis won't fix it, maybe delay it. Doing nothing will be even worse. Saying that we should let these institutions fail is not an option, because it will likely cripple the entire US economy.

Well, technically speaking, it is entirely possible that in a few years after the economy starts to bounce back, they could end up selling the packaged mortgages for more than they bought them for.

Think of what they're doing in the bailouts as quarantining these terrible packaged sub-prime loans, or attempting to stop the hemorrhaging economy by isolating the bad debt. If everyone feels secure about freezing the loans and the economy recovers from its economic ills, then when everything starts looking up, it's possible for them to start selling the debt back to the investors in the free market and recoup or even make money off of the investments.

They could even make enough money to pay off some of the interest for the national debt, you never know.

Oh, and allowing them to fail is not really an option. Letting one institution go under by itself, and thats okay, but letting AIG, MLynch, Wamu, and Lehmen Brothers all go down at the same time and you are essentially losing about 20% of your financial lending business which, along with housing, is the backbone of the American Economy.

This all started happening, fwiw, when Clinton and the Dem's pandered to the poor voters by urging banks to lower their lending requirements to increase household ownership. As a result, banks started making shittier and shittier loans because they figured the government would have their backs...they were doing their will anyway. And here we are...

[impala454]

I've heard the feds could stand to reap over 2 trillion from this... talk about your friggin trades....

Just hope Obama's not in office when it happens, if he got that much extra cash to play with we might as well start barcoding ourselves and learning the new national anthem, "Hail Mother America".

[Jim]

I think the bailout is a short term fix. And, with the talk of having only one person regulate it all is even worse... No oversight whatsoever.

[nickluto]

I think the bailout is a short term fix. And, with the talk of having only one person regulate it all is even worse... No oversight whatsoever.

Right. It wont work long-term if the problem of predatory lending isn't addressed.

There needs to be reform instituted by the federal government and implemented at the state level that structures lending contracts of all types in a language that fully-discloses the expectation on both parties. Everyone knows it's the fine print that no one reads that ends up screwing them. This needs to be fixed. It might be helpful if the government were to require every bank of a certain size to have on staff a person who is purely on salary and only responsible to the state government who's job it is to explain, in laymens terms, what the terms of every lending contract or credit application entails to discourage predatory lending practices.

Also, consumers need to wise up. The common conception tends to be "well, If they offer me this line of credit, they must think that I will be able to pay it back." No. The credit card companies of old who you used to be able to trust have changed into profit-hungry mega-corps. They want your money. They WANT you to not be able to pay, because they make more money that way. Remember, they are private corporations, too and are driven by the profits to make their stockholders richer. Credit is no longer something that must be earned, like it was with your mothers and fathers. You used to be taught you need "Capital, capacity' and commitment [to repay]" -- the three C's -- to get a line of credit. Now all you need is a social security number.

Predatory lending on college campuses is legendary now. They give you a free shirt, frisbee, or pizza whatever for signing up, all for the price of putting YOUR information into MULTIPLE credit card databases. Lo and behold, a credit card comes in the mail. Kids don't think about the long-term consequences of interest payments when they buy their new PS3, Plasma screen, or Xbox360. They buy stuff, have only a part-time job and tend to get in way over their heads. Most times, their parents try and bail them out, but many many times they cant and are in debt forever.

In addition, credit card companies spend BILLIONS of dollars annually to lobby and get the bankruptcy laws changed so that you need to have a certain amount of debt to file for it. This way they can keep charging you until you die.

In a whole, society needs to return to the roots of responsibility and spending within your means. Banks need to stop pushing customers to get into adjustable rate mortgages with principal payments that are multiple times higher than the customer can afford. Consumers need to wise up and understand exactly how a loan works and what is expected of them to ensure that they can afford future payments, and the federal government needs to stop encouraging banks to make bad loans under the guise that they need to increase home ownership to satisfy their constituency.

And society needs to return to the roots of responsibility not only fiscally. It's ridiculous how much people are allowed to blame on others.

You spill hot coffee on yourself? Sue the vendor for not warning you.

You get pregnant by not using condoms or birth control? Get an abortion.

You aren't happy 100% of the time in your marriage? Just get divorced.

You cant afford your house because you are living outside your means? Just declare bankruptcy.

You want a flat screen TV but cannot afford it? Get a credit card. Everyone else is in debt up their nuts. It's cool.

Don't want to take the time to understand your mortgage contract? Oh well, these people are probably trustworthy, just sign on the X and hope it works out.

There's a quick fix for everything nowadays and many people do not want to make the realization that they acted incorrectly in the past, so they are taking with the path of least resistance and most convenience, regardless of the long-term consequences.

Im not putting any moral qualifiers or judgements on any of the above decisions, I am just positing that as a whole, when taken together, it creates a culture of wreckless irresponsibility.

/rant over.