Obama's Proposed Tax Hikes, And you thought you already paid enough? Options

[Psykopath]

And yes, I know I just wrote an Impala-style quote-by-quote post. SO SUE ME.

(btw, thank you, Impala, for actually maintaining a reasonable line of discourse on these issues... unlike some people...)

[Mommy]

And would someone please explain to me what would be wrong with a tiered health care system. In other words, mandatory health insurance if you make a certain amount each year. This health insurance allows you to see whatever health provider you chose to see, and the insurance company reimburses what the provider asks. People who make below a certain amount are taxed an extra 2-3% of their wages but receive socialized health care that still is quality but more affordable. People who are unable to work because of health issues receive social security benefits that qualifies them to see socialized health providers, but with the option to upgrade if necessary (and with approval) to a different, more qualified provider.

[impala454]

Where did i say i believed what he said?

you didn't. that's my mistake. but you posted it in response to me asking what obama says he's going to do. I was pointing out that what he says he's going to do is too broad to be taken as some type of "plan". i.e. if you ask me how to build a computer, and I respond with "you buy the parts then put them together".

[impala454]

It bypasses the judicial system, giving more direct power to the executive branch.

I can see that I suppose... I just don't see it as some wide scale thing. Seems like that stuff was a fairly isolated set of cases. Let's put it this way, when I'm on the phone, I don't get the feeling some fed is listening to me.

It was slight hyperbole, but they do want to pass the Federal Marriage Amendment, which would define marriage as the union between a man and a woman. This isn't just a social concern to me, it's also a states rights issue. I think the decision on gay marriage should be left to the individual states.

I personally don't support gay marraige at all, but honestly I don't care what is done at the govt level about it and just don't see it as something important in deciding my vote, that's all. If anything (and I'm all for states rights as well), it would bug me for this to be a states issue, because now there's 50 states worth of politicians wasting money discussing it instead of just the feds.

Money: Both candidates are planning on cutting taxes in general. Both are probably lying. As per traditional party lines, Obama emphasizes cuts for the lower & middle class (tax hikes for the top 0.1%), while McCain has tax cuts across the board, but mostly for the wealthy. Nothing new here. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...8060900950.html

I don't really believe either of them will cut taxes either. I do believe McCain would renew Bush's tax cuts though.

[Spectatrix]

Christine, why would you support socialized health care (see, she realizes it's two words) for children? I mean, yeah, children shouldn't be denied health care...ever, but at the same time that would lower the quality of care, wouldn't it? They are our future.

I admittedly don't have a very coherent idea of what might be best to address this issue. My pseudo-acceptance of socialized health care for children is based simply on the fact that children shouldn't suffer just because their parents are bottom-feeding losers. The downside to having socialized options for children is that it decreases pressure on employers to subsidize insurance for their employees' dependents and, as you say, the socialized care may be lower quality.

[Spectatrix]

I can see that I suppose... I just don't see it as some wide scale thing. Seems like that stuff was a fairly isolated set of cases. Let's put it this way, when I'm on the phone, I don't get the feeling some fed is listening to me.

Fair enough. I'm not paranoid that the government is listening in on me either, but I do think they bypassed an easy-to-deal-with system (FISA court) and I don't think our government should be ignoring the checks and balances that are built into the system.

I personally don't support gay marraige at all, but honestly I don't care what is done at the govt level about it and just don't see it as something important in deciding my vote, that's all. If anything (and I'm all for states rights as well), it would bug me for this to be a states issue, because now there's 50 states worth of politicians wasting money discussing it instead of just the feds.

Haha, quite true that they're wasting money... but I support it as a state's rights issue mainly because marriage has historically fallen under the domain of the states.

I don't really believe either of them will cut taxes either. I do believe McCain would renew Bush's tax cuts though.

Same, though I also believe that Obama will renew them for the lower tax brackets... though maybe not up to $250k.

Wasn't talking about you.

[impala454]

look at this amicable discussion... Christine you got a sister who makes at least $70k?

edit: and... shares the family... ahem... genes?

[pebkac]

Well, if thinking people who actually work for their fucking money deserve to keep what they earn makes me an elitist, then golly gee whiz, I'm an elitist

No, that makes you like every other single person in the United States. Of course the catch is in defining who works for their money.

This post has been edited by pebkac: Jul 30 2008, 11:29 PM

[impala454]

No, that makes you like every other single person in the United States. Of course the catch is in defining who works for their money.

well if one didn't feel the need to label people elitists then there is no catch is there?

[pebkac]

well if one didn't feel the need to label people elitists then there is no catch is there?

That sounds like something an ELITIST would say.

[THECHICKEN]

you didn't. that's my mistake. but you posted it in response to me asking what obama says he's going to do. I was pointing out that what he says he's going to do is too broad to be taken as some type of "plan". i.e. if you ask me how to build a computer, and I respond with "you buy the parts then put them together".

http://obama.3cdn.net/b7be3b7cd08e587dca_v852mv8ja.pdf

A COMMITMENT TO FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY
Barack Obama’s plan will provide $80-85 billion in tax relief to America’s workers, seniors, and
homeowners. Unlike President Bush, whose fiscally irresponsible tax cuts that traded the budget
surpluses of the 1990s to record deficits today, Obama has a plan to pay for his tax reform plan. In
addition to closing the corporate loopholes and cracking down on international tax havens, he will pay
for middle class tax relief by and increasing the highest bracket for capital gains and dividends and
closing the carried interest loophole.

This is his "plan"... It goes into what he wants to do. There, now we can discuss whether he is actually a commy or not. Personally I think its all fine and good, but since the congress is the one who has to pass it, and since congress is full of special interests... even if logical this wouldn't be passed if it would effect corporations in such a way.

[Spectatrix]

look at this amicable discussion... Christine you got a sister who makes at least $70k?

edit: and... shares the family... ahem... genes?

Haha, 'fraid not. Only child.

[impala454]

wow... ok
(this is at obama btw, but you obama acolytes are welcome to respond)

This year alone, the average person in the wealthiest 1 percent of
Americans will receive more than $55,000 from the Bush tax cuts, while the average person in the
bottom 20 percent of Americans will get about $70.

how about lets talk in percentages and not dollar amounts. oh but then it wouldn't be manipulating the American people's ignorance into voting for you.

Our tax code is riddled with loopholes and special tax breaks that benefit Washington special interests.

Like what? If it's so "riddled" with them how come you couldn't cite one damn example in your "plan"?

There are corporate carve-outs that serve no national purpose

Corporate tax cuts don't serve any national purpose???!? How about stimulating the economy, creating jobs, and helping the value of the dollar??

tax breaks that allow companies to stash
their profits overseas; a government that’s paralyzed when dealing with offshore tax haven countries

So, who's fault is this? Well I know at least partially who's at fault, all the jackasses like you, and McCain, and everyone else in the three branches of government who either haven't been enforcing taxes here, or need to implement better enforcement.

When big business doesn’t like
something in the tax code, they can hire a lobbyist to get it changed. But nobody lobbies for working
people. Instead of honoring that core American value – opportunity for all – we’ve had a system in
Washington where our laws and regulations have carved out opportunities for the few.

Uh, I'm sorry I must have missed the part where it said it was illegal for "working people" to go lobby for tax breaks. Everyone does have the opportunity. And who in the flyin fuck do you think makes up these terrible evil corporations?!? Fucking robots? how about working people.

Create a new “Making Work Pay” tax credit of up to $1,000 for America’s working families

$500 per person, ok I suppose that's fine. It doesn't really specify what you do to get this tax credit... other than drawing a paycheck.... which... if... you're not drawing a paycheck you're not paying taxes anyways... . I guess it is something though. Remember though it's a $500 tax credit, not refund. Two completely different animals. Depending on your situation this might increase your refund by $50-150.

Create a new universal mortgage interest credit that will benefit low and middle-income
homeowners

Not sure what this means. You already get to deduct 100% of your mortgage interest. I don't understand why he acts like itemizing is only for rich people... and you don't have to completely itemize to claim mortgage interest deductions. I also like how he mentions "this will benefit an additional 10 million Americans". Well bud, there's 300 million of us. I'm so glad this plan will allow 1/30 people to do something they were already able to do.

Honor America’s seniors by eliminating income taxes for those making less than $50,000 per
year

Wow... this really pisses me off. So now, not only are they living off the social security I'm paying in but will never see a dime of, they get out of their income tax altogether!?!?? So some asshole old man can be making $49,000/yr, have practically zero bills, and go joy riding in the RV the rest of their life. Where in hell is Obama coming up with the money for this one? Mark my words, this won't happen in a million years. Just another lie to get votes.

Eliminate special interest loopholes and tax breaks and crack down on international tax
havens

He doesn't mention a single loophole he's going to eliminate. Not to mention, tax breaks for large corporations HELP our economy. If you start slamming large corporations with more taxes, they find some other country to do business in.


thanks for posting that, not that I needed any more reason to not vote for Obama, but it was still a little enlightening.

[James]

Honor America’s seniors by eliminating income taxes for those making less than $50,000 per
year

So I won't ever have to pay taxes again?! I already don't pay social security.

Ok, I'm kidding on the taxes part. Just semi-poor wording on his part that probably just created a loophole if it goes into play as worded.

[impala454]

well "senior" gets him more votes than "people over 65" or whatever.