Obama's Proposed Tax Hikes, And you thought you already paid enough? Options

[Dogmeat]

bill gates had more to do with "the greatest economic growth" in the history of the united states than clinton did.

except for his little bitch inventing the internet I guess

And, I would hardley call that time period the "greatest economic growth in the history of the United States" if you lived in the Rocky Mountain region ..

All of us out here were eating dog shit throughout the late 80's and 90's with billy bob and all his wonderful "roadless" orders and shit

As far as I'm concerned everyone in california can fucking starve to death on $5.00 a gallon gas, it serves the assholes right for not supporting domestic drilling all these years.

[Billy]

Who gives a shit if it's fake?

I'm sure it's been circulated widely enough that it hurt Obama's chances

Read the snopes link she posted. It's only partially fake. Way to spin it, Spec.

[Billy]

Not gonig into war was an option...

You DO realize Obama supports military action against Iran right??

No matter who you vote for, there will be a war, folks.

[Billy]

First, here's another article about that email, this time from FactCheck.org (fantastic non-partisan site, by the way): http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/woul...ofits_if_i.html

Secondly, to respond to Impala and other folks chiming in to condemn Obama...

I know that Bush's tax cuts were made across all tax brackets. I also know that Obama's income tax plan is to maintain the cuts for couples making below 250k/year (singles below 200k), while letting them expire for those above that mark. Obama would have even further tax cuts for some of the lower brackets. The analyses I've read on the issue have concluded that both candidates would lower income taxes by nearly equal amounts, just with distributional differences.

Obama and McCain also both wish to reduce (but not eliminate) the estate tax. Admittedly, Obama may raise the capital gains and dividends taxes.

I am not happy about a universal health care plan. I hope it largely crashes & burns. I'm fine with providing health care for uninsured minors, less happy with providing it for adults who should be able to fend for themselves. I'd rather the government put its energy into getting rid of the stranglehold that unscrupulous insurers have on our healthcare system and possibly also providing incentives for clinics to offer discounted care.

But that's my main beef with Obama. I have far more issues with McCain, primarily with his stances on foreign policy and abortion rights.

This isn't that shit hole Europe. This is America. Here, we should have the right, when we earn our money, to keep our money. It doesn't matter how much you earn, you shouldn't be responsible for the upkeep of this country any more than anyone else. The rich are already unfairly taxed enough.

[Spectatrix]

Read the snopes link she posted. It's only partially fake. Way to spin it, Spec.

It was mostly fake. How the fuck did I spin it?

You DO realize Obama supports military action against Iran right??

No matter who you vote for, there will be a war, folks.

He said he wouldn't rule out military action if it was necessary. It's not his first course of action. McCain & company seem to want to eschew diplomatic options altogether.

This isn't that shit hole Europe. This is America. Here, we should have the right, when we earn our money, to keep our money. It doesn't matter how much you earn, you shouldn't be responsible for the upkeep of this country any more than anyone else. The rich are already unfairly taxed enough.

I'm not thrilled about having a progressive tax system, but it's gonna be a cold day in hell before we get a flat tax. And I've said it before, I'll say it again... I don't really care what kind of tax system we have if the damn government would just reign in spending.

[Dogmeat]

what happened to russia is going to happen to the US .... the fucking socialists are going to hoarde more and more and more money and power for themselves and the government is going to get so big and bureaucratic it's going to fall apart under it's own weight.

This country WILL split, and it's going to split into the northern rockies becoming a part of canada, mexico will consume california and texas, then the east and midwest will be their own country ...

[impala454]

I love when people hate on bush for tax cuts (still baffles me) and then later talk about how much they'd love a flat tax. do any of you realize what a flat tax would do? it would be a GINORMOUS tax cut of EPIC proportions for the rich, and a GINORMOUS tax increase for everyone else.

wake up and realize who pays the most taxes in this country people.

and Christine, not to strike back at ya, but if you really believe Obama won't raise taxes for anyone making less than $250k you're really naive.

[Spectatrix]

I don't know whether he would or not. I also don't know whether McCain would or not. I trust them both as much as I do any politician (i.e. about as far as I can throw 'em), but I may as well compare what they're proposing rather than engaging in rampant speculation.

I hate both parties. I'm not particularly thrilled about either candidate, but I'm somewhat less scared of Obama than McCain and that's based on reasoning and analysis of their positions rather than pure media hype (or bullshit emails). I don't love Obama. I don't hate McCain. I'm a liberal-leaning Libertarian and I think pretty much all mainstream politicians suck ass.

This post has been edited by Spectatrix: Jul 29 2008, 10:44 PM

[impala454]

Christine I think your own personal speculation will be worth 10x more than any political candidate's pre-election "proposals".

It's not hard to speculate that a democrat president has a pretty high percentage chance of raising taxes coming into office after a republican who's cut taxes.

[Mommy]

Obama in office scares the crap out of me.

[Spectatrix]

Christine I think your own personal speculation will be worth 10x more than any political candidate's pre-election "proposals".

It's not hard to speculate that a democrat president has a pretty high percentage chance of raising taxes coming into office after a republican who's cut taxes.

It's also not hard to speculate that a republican president would cut or maintain taxes and continue to increase spending. *shrugs*

[impala454]

It's also not hard to speculate that a republican president would cut or maintain taxes and continue to increase spending. *shrugs*

I'm not disagreeing with you on that. But I don't see how you think that's validation for the democrats to keep raising taxes and spending.

I guess my question to you would be: Which do you prefer? Higher taxes and more government control or lower taxes and less government control?

And of course it's a very loaded question. Whereas if you chose the latter, I don't see how you could vote for Obama.

[Dogmeat]

It's also not hard to speculate that a republican president would cut or maintain taxes and continue to increase spending. *shrugs*

If you think the Democrats will reduce or maintain current spending levels you are insane.

All they will do is redistribute what is already being spent, then increase it more.

We're beyond the point of no return as far as out of control government spending ....

The best we can hope for is somone who will have a stronger economic policy in order to bolster the gratuitious pork project everyone in Washington is so fond of, and I completley fail to see how taking more of people's money and redistributing it to whoever voted for whoever is going to solve this problem.

Ultimatley, Americans, but ESPECIALLY poor Americans .... need to stop fucking expecting the god damned government to fix all the problems in their lives for them and start taking some initiative.

I am so sick of hearing about how "horrible" the economy is....If you aren't a fat lazy fuck, you can do pretty well right now.

[Spectatrix]

Both parties plan on spending our money and setting up more governmental control. They just plan to spend on different things. Back when the Republican party stood for a balanced budget and small government, I would have fully supported them -- but that's a thing of the past.

Since I now hate the fiscal policy of both parties, I have to judge them on other issues... like social policy. Based on that, the democratic party has my tentative support.

[Dogmeat]

Since I now hate the fiscal policy of both parties, I have to judge them on other issues... like social policy. Based on that, the democratic party has my tentative support.

Why?