Obama's Proposed Tax Hikes, And you thought you already paid enough? Options

[impala454]

He pandered to his base with said cuts.

pandered to his base? so you didn't appreciate lower taxes? and how is "pandering to his base" helping him? why can't you just see that they simply want lower taxes?? why does it have to be some evil devious motivation?

[Jim]

Who gives a shit if it's fake?

I'm sure it's been circulated widely enough that it hurt Obama's chances

Because Inter-office e-mails like this will determine his win or loss...

[impala454]

Yes, Republicans support tax cuts... without a corresponding reduction in spending. Neither party is fiscally responsible.

well running a country aint like balancing your checkbook and having one income and five bills to pay, so i don't know that you have much place to call them "fiscally irresponsible". and saying "neener neener republicans do this" isn't exactly a response to what was said. it's not an excuse for democrats to take more taxes and increase spending. and I don't know that the bush administration had any choice in spending when there's a war going on and huge hits to the economy. lets compare the costs of war or cleaning up after some bad mortgage lending to the price of providing health care to 300 million people.

[impala454]

Here ya go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_i...e_United_States

Current estimates put U.S. health care spending at approximately 16% of GDP.[2][3] The health share of GDP is expected to continue its historical upward trend, reaching 19.5 percent of GDP by 2017.[2] In 2007, the U.S. spent a projected $2.26 trillion on health care, or $7,439 per person.

2.25 TRILLION in one year... and Obama wants to take that over and tax us to pay for it all....

I honestly don't see how someone can be a taxpayer and vote for this lunatic

[Jim]

well running a country aint like balancing your checkbook and having one income and five bills to pay, so i don't know that you have much place to call them "fiscally irresponsible". and saying "neener neener republicans do this" isn't exactly a response to what was said. it's not an excuse for democrats to take more taxes and increase spending. and I don't know that the bush administration had any choice in spending when there's a war going on and huge hits to the economy. lets compare the costs of war or cleaning up after some bad mortgage lending to the price of providing health care to 300 million people.

Not gonig into war was an option...

[impala454]

Not gonig into war was an option...

Yeah, letting a dictator continue to dodge weapons inspections was definitely an option. A wrong one IMHO. I think helping them get their freedom is worth it. If you look at how we got our freedoms, it was because we fought for it, but we wouldn't have gotten it without the help of other countries. I hate to say it but if it werent for France we'd all be having tea & crumpets & playing sissyball for the sillynannies.

[Psykopath]

pandered to his base? so you didn't appreciate lower taxes? and how is "pandering to his base" helping him? why can't you just see that they simply want lower taxes?? why does it have to be some evil devious motivation?

Not a single person in my family was affected by Bush's tax cuts...except my Grandfather, who is RICH.

[impala454]

Not a single person in my family was affected by Bush's tax cuts...except my Grandfather, who is RICH.

So, not a single person in your family pays income tax?

/calls IRS

[Psykopath]

So, not a single person in your family pays income tax?

/calls IRS

oh, my my my... I keep forgetting why I found it pointless to post in NPR anymore (or to talk politics in any fashion except in person, for that matter).

Then you post something and the reasoning just comes flooding back into my brain.




I hate Bush, you love him. Bottom line of this argument, right there. That should save us from the umpteenth dipshit flame war thread on this issue.

This post has been edited by Psykopath: Jul 29 2008, 02:24 PM

[impala454]

I don't love or hate Bush. What I hate is how people like you believe Obama or Hillary or whoever says stuff like "Bush's tax cuts only help the wealthy" which is utter bullshit. His cuts were across the board, and the largest cuts were for the LOWEST bracket! So do me a favor and lose the stupid ass "oh my my my crap" and calling me a bush cock sucker instead of looking at the facts.

It honestly pains me to think that someone like Obama might get elected because even college educated people like yourself will believe anything they say. If you guys believe him just think of what all the completely uneducated Americans will believe (from a very biased media no doubt).

[Dogmeat]

I don't think Bush is conservative enough personally ...

[Inferia]

Yeah, letting a dictator continue to dodge weapons inspections was definitely an option. A wrong one IMHO. I think helping them get their freedom is worth it. If you look at how we got our freedoms, it was because we fought for it, but we wouldn't have gotten it without the help of other countries. I hate to say it but if it werent for France we'd all be having tea & crumpets & playing sissyball for the sillynannies.

Isn't this rather idealistic and romanticizing vision of the US? Here comes the white knight in his shining armor to save the poor oppressed people of Iraq? I feel like that's what fairy tales are made of. I guess when it comes to idealism, liberals and conservatives are not all that much different, they just romanticize different stuff.

[Dogmeat]

Isn't this rather idealistic and romanticizing vision of the US? Here comes the white knight in his shining armor to save the poor oppressed people of Iraq? I feel like that's what fairy tales are made of. I guess when it comes to idealism, liberals and conservatives are not all that much different, they just romanticize different stuff.

I see, so the people of Iraq weren't oppressed under Saddam?

Right.

I'm sure the people in Iran aren't oppressed either ... all you gotta do is go fuck some slut in Iran and you get hanged for it.

Go fascist Islam, WOO!

[Spectatrix]

First, here's another article about that email, this time from FactCheck.org (fantastic non-partisan site, by the way): http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/woul...ofits_if_i.html

Secondly, to respond to Impala and other folks chiming in to condemn Obama...

I know that Bush's tax cuts were made across all tax brackets. I also know that Obama's income tax plan is to maintain the cuts for couples making below 250k/year (singles below 200k), while letting them expire for those above that mark. Obama would have even further tax cuts for some of the lower brackets. The analyses I've read on the issue have concluded that both candidates would lower income taxes by nearly equal amounts, just with distributional differences.

Obama and McCain also both wish to reduce (but not eliminate) the estate tax. Admittedly, Obama may raise the capital gains and dividends taxes.

I am not happy about a universal health care plan. I hope it largely crashes & burns. I'm fine with providing health care for uninsured minors, less happy with providing it for adults who should be able to fend for themselves. I'd rather the government put its energy into getting rid of the stranglehold that unscrupulous insurers have on our healthcare system and possibly also providing incentives for clinics to offer discounted care.

But that's my main beef with Obama. I have far more issues with McCain, primarily with his stances on foreign policy and abortion rights.

This post has been edited by Spectatrix: Jul 29 2008, 04:04 PM

[dauss]

It won't matter who wins. How else are we going to close a $490,000,000,000 deficit? That's not even including an additional estimated $80,000,000,000 for that thing we're doing in Iraq and Afghanistan. You may argue that it is a smaller percentage of the GDP than some previous record deficits, but that's a lame excuse for the poor fiscal responsibility of the current administration.

Didn't Clinton raise taxes which was then followed the greatest economic growth in the history of the United States?

Bush had generous tax cuts which he claimed benefits the economy, which then followed economic stimulus checks because the economy was reaping all the "benefits" from the previous cut.