Enslave the Poor Options

[impala454]

by socialist countries you mean China? thats communism.

newsflash: Communism is a form of socialism. and before you come back with it (and I know you would) no, I did not just say socialism = communism. note the difference.

if americans needs more control by a good honest government to stop being idiotic im all for it

how would controlling citizens more make less idiots??

[impala454]

His plan suggests that you have the right to choose your insurer, your doctor, etc. and it creates the needed markets. Doctors will lower their prices because they are "competing" in a way.

I'm not really sure I understand how this is different than what we have right now.

[Hartmann]

I'm not really sure I understand how this is different than what we have right now.

There are a good portion of employers that lock you into their carrier. You are unable to decline coverage. His plan would do away with this.

A lot of what he has planned is for medicare and HSAs.

[Psykopath]

newsflash: Communism is a form of socialism. and before you come back with it (and I know you would) no, I did not just say socialism = communism. note the difference.

I've already pointed out how this is wrong.

Communism and Socialism are not the same.
Marx argued that "Socialism was a stage on the road to Communism." Key difference?: Socialism has a State, Communism does not.
And again I emphasize: Nobody here is arguing for pure Socialism (on the vein of Marx's definition in the very least).

[Testm0nkey]

newsflash: Communism is a form of socialism. and before you come back with it (and I know you would) no, I did not just say socialism = communism. note the difference.
how would controlling citizens more make less idiots??

because the nonidiotic americans would not suffer because of all the asshats that dont know any better. i am also one of those people that does not believe paying higher taxes to make sure everyone is granted healthcare and a good education is a horrible thing

ie. higher government control on fuel efficiency and pollution = me having less risk of cancer and having a better environment in which to live

[impala454]

There are a good portion of employers that lock you into their carrier. You are unable to decline coverage. His plan would do away with this.

A lot of what he has planned is for medicare and HSAs.

But you're not "locked" into any provider. You can choose whichever provider you want. You just may have to pay for it out of pocket. It should be up to the company what provider they pay for IMHO.

[impala454]

I've already pointed out how this is wrong.

We just said the same thing. Read it again.

Unless you see some huge difference between these two statements:

1. Communism is a form of Socialism
2. Socialism is a stage on the road to Communism.

I see zero difference in those two statements.

[impala454]

because the nonidiotic americans would not suffer because of all the asshats that dont know any better.

You're going to have to explain this. I'm having a hard time making any sense out of this sentence. I really did try.

i am also one of those people that does not believe paying higher taxes to make sure everyone is granted healthcare and a good education is a horrible thing

So when some family (citizens or otherwise) next door to you pops out eight kids and nobody has a job except the husband who lays bricks and doesn't pay taxes, you're perfectly fine with paying more taxes so those eight kids can have free healthcare and education? If so, this is the type of tolerance that keeps illegal immigration at record highs. What happens when it just keeps getting worse and worse? Just keep raising taxes?

ie. higher government control on fuel efficiency and pollution = me having less risk of cancer and having a better environment in which to live

Again that type of thing isn't what I'm talking about. It's something that effects everybody, not just you. I am all for regulations that keep one person from doing something that effects another person negatively (i.e. public smoking ordinances, etc). Your health effects you and you alone. What you eat, where you work, what you do with your life effects you only.

[Psykopath]

We just said the same thing. Read it again.

Unless you see some huge difference between these two statements:

1. Communism is a form of Socialism
2. Socialism is a stage on the road to Communism.

I see zero difference in those two statements.

I'll take a page from your playbook:




Pure socialism is a stage on the road to Communism... Not the other way around. That's like saying Conservatism and Totalitarianism are the same.
Socialism has a state, Communism does not...KEY DIFFERENCE.

And again, I stress: Nobody here is arguing in favor of pure Socialism, yet you seem to think that is all that exists on that spectrum. Really boggles my mind why you can't understand this, but whatever.

[impala454]

I'll take a page from your playbook:


Pure socialism is a stage on the road to Communism... Not the other way around. That's like saying Conservatism and Totalitarianism are the same.

It's like there's an echo in here. Please read post #61, and no I did not edit it.

Socialism has a state, Communism does not...KEY DIFFERENCE.

I don't really care to debate terms & definitions, but really, the difference is not as "key" as you're putting it. One calls it a "state" the other calls it a "party" or group or whatever the hell else you want to call it. It's all semantics. Either way, it's an illusion of "power to the people" when they in fact have no power whatsoever.

And again, I stress: Nobody here is arguing in favor of pure Socialism, yet you seem to think that is all that exists on that spectrum. Really boggles my mind why you can't understand this, but whatever.

I have not once accused anyone here of being in favor of "pure" socialism. I simply feel that the ideas that many of the democrats propose are generally socialist. Would you disagree? If you're going to pull Marxist theory on me, then sure, "pure" socialism is "a stage on the road" to communism. Well then let me ask, what is "a stage on the road" to pure socialism?

[Psykopath]

*bangs...head...on...desk*


I'm going back to the dojo now, Impala.

Your oversimplification and selective reading has angered me yet again.

[chook]

I'd say communism is a human attempt at socialism.

[impala454]

*bangs...head...on...desk*
I'm going back to the dojo now, Impala.

Your oversimplification and selective reading has angered me yet again.

I didn't partially read anything in your post, I quoted and addressed the whole thing. And allow me to finish up my thought since you didn't answer it, maybe give ya some more dojo motivation? Maybe you can just print out this thread and tape it to your punching bag

Well then let me ask, what is "a stage on the road" to pure socialism?

Well what a great question self, I must say that a "stage on the road" to pure socialism must in fact be, partial socialism!

[Inferia]

newsflash: Communism is a form of socialism. and before you come back with it (and I know you would) no, I did not just say socialism = communism. note the difference.
how would controlling citizens more make less idiots??

Actually, I think communism refers to a political system, whereas socialism refers to an economic system. Though most of the time the two are intertwined, but one can exist with out the other.

[impala454]

Actually, I think communism refers to a political system, whereas socialism refers to an economic system. Though most of the time the two are intertwined, but one can exist with out the other.

So how exactly would a communist regime work without a socialist economy? And how would a socialist economy work without the political structure in place to support it?