Enslave the Poor Options

[impala454]

impala has a black person ever approached you and complained about slavery? sitting in school and learning about black history in february doesnt count...

Yeah, I had a black roommate when I was in college and he'd bitch about it all the time. Not to mention you see people on TV and those jokers like farakhan. It's not like black people are just going to walk up to me and say "OMG GIMME MY REPARATIONS CHECKS BITCH!"

[The Fanatic]

SHUT THE FUCK UP MONKEY! I HAVE COMPANY!

Actually poor people are already enslaved, wage slaves.


and AMEN Glenn. I don't know how many black people I have had to tell "My ancestors were poor and Irish we did not have any slaves!!!!"

[impala454]

Actually poor people are already enslaved, wage slaves.

not hardly. nobody is forcing anyone to work low wage jobs.

[Testm0nkey]

circumstance can also be a force. not necessarily just a gun to someones head

[impala454]

right. that's not everyone else's fault though.

[The Fanatic]

not hardly. nobody is forcing anyone to work low wage jobs.

There are only so many high paying jobs. The system "forces" individuals to work low wage jobs because corporations have to make the bottom line. It is not direct coercion but merely the way the game is played. I'm not advocating complete socialism and wage equality because there will always be individuals who are born to die in the shit of others. Although I reject the commonly held conservative notion that every person has equal opportunity to succeed and escape their circumstances. If you are born in the inner city without a stable family life and no one to look up to sometimes the only viable option is to join a gang.

The problem is cultural conditioning and circumstance; blaming everything on individual choice is foolish. Do you think anyone would honestly choose to live in the inner city and smoke meth/crack/other stimulants if they had other options and opportunities? It is a vicious circle: drugs help individuals escape reality while at the same time maintaining the poor status quo.

No one is forcing anyone to work low wage jobs but the economy and the populace demands a value menu...

[impala454]

There are only so many high paying jobs.

there is not some set number of jobs out there. hell you can create your own job. this notion that people are tied to some specific way of life with no possible way out is bullshit, and does nothing but breed people of the same attitude. "Well I can't ever amount to anything, so I won't bother trying." Saying that the only option is to do drugs or join gangs is utter bullshit.

You're right though, you don't choose where you're born or who your parents are. But everything you do from then on is all you and only you.

The economy demanding a dollar menu doesn't mean any one specific person is required to man those positions. Whether it's a 16 year old kid raising money for a car, or a 47 year old drugged up poor person who can't hold any other jobs because they have zero ambition.

Therin lies the difference between Socialists & Caplitalists. One society is driven by ambition, the other is satisfied with a mediocre life.

[The Fanatic]

there is not some set number of jobs out there. hell you can create your own job. this notion that people are tied to some specific way of life with no possible way out is bullshit, and does nothing but breed people of the same attitude. "Well I can't ever amount to anything, so I won't bother trying." Saying that the only option is to do drugs or join gangs is utter bullshit.

You're right though, you don't choose where you're born or who your parents are. But everything you do from then on is all you and only you.

The economy demanding a dollar menu doesn't mean any one specific person is required to man those positions. Whether it's a 16 year old kid raising money for a car, or a 47 year old drugged up poor person who can't hold any other jobs because they have zero ambition.

Therin lies the difference between Socialists & Caplitalists. One society is driven by ambition, the other is satisfied with a mediocre life.

Choices are limited by circumstance. And I would argue that capitalism provides most citizens with mediocrity or poverty.


There are a limited number of jobs out there because we depend on finite resources (IE money, food, gas, infrastructure etc)

This post has been edited by The Fanatic: Feb 25 2008, 04:33 PM

[Testm0nkey]

Therin lies the difference between Socialists & Caplitalists. One society is driven by ambition, the other is satisfied with helping others

theres a little edit for you. impala you cant be sure you wouldnt turn out to be a meth smoking innercity white adult working minimum wage had you grown up in worse circumstances. because from my understanding, thats not your background. so dont be so harsh

[impala454]

Choices are limited by circumstance.

but circumstances often occur due to choices.

And I would argue that capitalism provides most citizens with mediocrity or poverty.

This makes no sense at all. Are you now saying that "most citizens" in our society are in a medicore life or in poverty!??

There are a limited number of jobs out there because we depend on finite resources (IE money, food, gas, infrastructure etc)

That's a stupid statement. The number of jobs in our country changes constantly. I could go start a company tomorrow, or someone else could lose their company. I could quit my job and go flip burgers, or not have a job at all. Or that bum on the road could go get a job as a janitor. To say there's not enough jobs and that's why there's poor people is utterly stupid.

[impala454]

theres a little edit for you.

"Helping people"? You think socialism helps people?!?! Make everybody miserable so nobody is extremely miserable. What a wonderful way to live life.

impala you cant be sure you wouldnt turn out to be a meth smoking innercity white adult working minimum wage had you grown up in worse circumstances. because from my understanding, thats not your background. so dont be so harsh

But by the same token, how can you be sure I would have been a meth smoking adult working minimum wage? The point is, the opportunity is there.

[Psykopath]

"Helping people"? You think socialism helps people?!?! Make everybody miserable so nobody is extremely miserable. What a wonderful way to live life.
But by the same token, how can you be sure I would have been a meth smoking adult working minimum wage? The point is, the opportunity is there.

So, how do you have a first hand account of democratic socialism (which is what I assume people are arguing for here)? When did you live in a western European nation, or study there systems so extensively?

I mean, you seem to know so much about them to be able to say they are 100% evil and wrong!
That...or your spitting out right-wing propagandized knowledge on the subject which you milked from some Fox News lackey. (Same goes on the opposite spectrum for those that defend pure socialism)

[impala454]

All you need to know is what the world socialism means. Would you live a happy life if you knew that whatever job you currently have is all you would ever be allowed to amount to by the government?

Sure, some people in communist countries are/were probably happy. Because they never knew anything else.

[Psykopath]

All you need to know is what the world socialism means. Would you live a happy life if you knew that whatever job you currently have is all you would ever be allowed to amount to by the government?

Sure, some people in communist countries are/were probably happy. Because they never knew anything else.

You're oversimplifying the varying shades of socialism into one propagandized term.

Read my above post. I think I've already pointed out this inconsistency in regards to Aaron/Dogmeat.

Nobody here is arguing in favor of pure socialism, which is what you seem to assume we are, as well as what you think is all that exists in that spectrum.

Sure, some people in communist countries are/were probably happy. Because they never knew anything else.

And GODDAMMIT: Communism and Socialism are not the same.
Marx argued that "Socialism was a stage on the road to Communism." Key difference?: Socialism has a State, Communism does not.
And again I emphasize: Nobody here is arguing for pure Socialism (on the vein of Marx's definition in the very least).

This post has been edited by Psykopath: Feb 25 2008, 05:16 PM

[impala454]

You're oversimplifying the varying shades of socialism into one propagandized term.

Read my above post. I think I've already pointed out this inconsistency in regards to Aaron/Dogmeat.

Nobody here is arguing in favor of pure socialism, which is what you seem to assume we are, as well as what you think is all that exists in that spectrum.

What does it matter whether it's "pure" socialism? Why do you need the government to control any aspect of your life whatsoever?