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> Kerry endorses Obama
Spectatrix
post Jan 10 2008, 12:47 PM
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For better or worse... hopefully this'll give Obama a boost over Clinton.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22590831/


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QUOTE (pebkac @ Oct 14 2006, 03:15 PM) *
You and your logic.

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Psykopath
post Jan 10 2008, 03:02 PM
Post #2


Why so serious?


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There is NOTHING wrong with socialized healthcare.

The only thing "wrong" with it is the incorrect spin placed on it and scare tactics utilized by opponents (tactics started by pharm companies, medical corporations, and doctors who enjoy ripping out a patient's asshole with bills).

YES, doctors make less under such a system. The make a mid-range six-figure salary. Ohhhhhhhh, the horror, they'll STARVE!!!

lolz


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Hartmann
post Jan 10 2008, 03:25 PM
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QUOTE (Psykopath @ Jan 10 2008, 03:02 PM) *
There is NOTHING wrong with socialized healthcare.

The only thing "wrong" with it is the incorrect spin placed on it and scare tactics utilized by opponents (tactics started by pharm companies, medical corporations, and doctors who enjoy ripping out a patient's asshole with bills).

YES, doctors make less under such a system. The make a mid-range six-figure salary. Ohhhhhhhh, the horror, they'll STARVE!!!

lolz


There are several issues with universal healthcare. Just because you don't think they are issues does not make them non-issues.

Your last sentence actually points out a flaw in the system and the move to socialism. Doctors provide a needed service and therefore can make more money than other people. They are also more skilled than, say, a computer programmer. Why should they not make six figures? You make it sound like the motivation for every doctor is money, which I guess for some, it is. However, spending 7+ in school (with lots of debt), is a lot of work to make more money. If anything, we should be trying to keep doctors here in the states as there is an overwhelming number of people getting their training here and then moving overseas.

My main problems with universal healthcare however, are these:

1. Not everyone wants healthcare. There are a good number of Americans who have no interest in getting health insurance, not even if it was mandatory. Why should those people pay into something that they will never use (this same concept can be used for those who don't want social security)? Also, will the government fine these people for not paying in? Hillary's language is pretty much "mandatory" healthcare while Obama's is more fuzzy.

2. The main problem isn't the healthcare system, the periphery is. The insurance and drug companies are the problem. Ever since 1997 when it became legal to advertise prescription drugs on television and billboards we have seen an increase in the cost of healthcare. The insurance companies saw potential and have stuck with it and they've ignored preventive care.

3. People who need/want healthcare can get it for an inexpensive price tag, the problem is, they don't do it. There are lots of options for less expensive, good healthcare. I priced self-paid insurance for me this morning, $80/month with the benefits of everything I have at work right now.

4. It is the first true step to socialism. We already have government intervention in other areas, now we're getting government intervention with possible mandatory participation. No thanks.

5. Taxes. Anyone who does not think we will see a minor and even significant tax increase is sorely mistaken. Utopias of healthcare for everyone don't come cheap, just ask a Canadian, they pay nearly 50% of their income away in taxes, leading to retirement problems later on. Yeah, sure, when they're 80 they'll still have access to a hospital for "free" but they will also still be working.

6. Waste. There is a lot of waste associated with universal healthcare. Again, ask a Canadian. Why? Well there is no incentive to produce anything efficiently or cheaply because it is government funds being used to pay for it.

Anyway, those are my issues with universal healthcare. I don't deny there is a healthcare problem in the U.S. I just think there are other ways to affectively change it for the better.


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Posts in this topic
- Spectatrix   Kerry endorses Obama   Jan 10 2008, 12:47 PM
- - woody   fuckin kerry is just gonna fuck up obama with that   Jan 10 2008, 12:49 PM
- - TTUAthleticTrainer   Boo! I dont like Obama....the Republicans are...   Jan 10 2008, 01:12 PM
- - Spectatrix   Actually, I think Obama has been doing quite well ...   Jan 10 2008, 01:31 PM
- - Melanie   Republicans hope for Hillary where Democrats hope ...   Jan 10 2008, 01:56 PM
|- - Hartmann   QUOTE (Melanie @ Jan 10 2008, 01:56 PM) R...   Jan 10 2008, 02:34 PM
|- - Jessica   QUOTE (Hartmann @ Jan 10 2008, 02:34 PM) ...   Jan 10 2008, 02:58 PM
- - Spectatrix   If Hillary wins the nom, my vote for the Republica...   Jan 10 2008, 02:40 PM
- - Hartmann   My only problem with Obama is his call for us to b...   Jan 10 2008, 02:57 PM
- - Psykopath   There is NOTHING wrong with socialized healthcare....   Jan 10 2008, 03:02 PM
|- - Spectatrix   QUOTE (Psykopath @ Jan 10 2008, 03:02 PM)...   Jan 10 2008, 03:09 PM
||- - Hartmann   QUOTE (Spectatrix @ Jan 10 2008, 03:09 PM...   Jan 10 2008, 03:27 PM
|- - Hartmann   QUOTE (Psykopath @ Jan 10 2008, 03:02 PM)...   Jan 10 2008, 03:25 PM
- - Jessica   All I know is that our healthcare is ridiculously ...   Jan 10 2008, 03:04 PM
- - Psykopath   ...I foresee spinning off another healthcare threa...   Jan 10 2008, 03:07 PM
- - woody   don't pay the bill a la el paso style   Jan 10 2008, 03:08 PM
- - woody   i agree with spec on this one people bitch how th...   Jan 10 2008, 03:11 PM
- - Oasis   Is it true that Obama smokes cigarettes?   Jan 10 2008, 03:37 PM
|- - Oasis   QUOTE (Oasis @ Jan 10 2008, 03:37 PM) Is ...   Jan 10 2008, 05:27 PM
|- - Jessica   QUOTE (Oasis @ Jan 10 2008, 05:27 PM) obv...   Jan 10 2008, 05:30 PM
|- - Oasis   QUOTE (Jessica @ Jan 10 2008, 05:30 PM) o...   Jan 10 2008, 05:38 PM
|- - Jessica   QUOTE (Oasis @ Jan 10 2008, 05:38 PM) Obv...   Jan 10 2008, 05:48 PM
|- - Oasis   QUOTE (Jessica @ Jan 10 2008, 05:48 PM) i...   Jan 10 2008, 05:52 PM
|- - chook   QUOTE (Oasis @ Jan 10 2008, 05:52 PM) I d...   Jan 10 2008, 10:34 PM
- - impala454   Not sure how John Kerry's endorsement makes an...   Jan 10 2008, 03:52 PM
- - Testm0nkey   ive never known anyone who didnt want health care/...   Jan 10 2008, 03:53 PM
|- - impala454   QUOTE (Testm0nkey @ Jan 10 2008, 03:53 PM...   Jan 10 2008, 04:02 PM
|- - Spectatrix   QUOTE (Testm0nkey @ Jan 10 2008, 03:53 PM...   Jan 10 2008, 05:15 PM
- - FORSAKENR320   they just better make sure no fucking wetbacks can...   Jan 10 2008, 04:13 PM
- - impala454   lol   Jan 10 2008, 04:17 PM
- - Psykopath   Ah yes, Reaganistic fears: "The commies are c...   Jan 10 2008, 04:51 PM
- - impala454   Why do you guys have it in your head that healthca...   Jan 10 2008, 05:02 PM
|- - Psykopath   QUOTE (impala454 @ Jan 10 2008, 05:02 PM)...   Jan 10 2008, 05:14 PM
||- - impala454   QUOTE (Psykopath @ Jan 10 2008, 05:14 PM)...   Jan 10 2008, 05:27 PM
|- - Jessica   QUOTE (impala454 @ Jan 10 2008, 05:02 PM)...   Jan 10 2008, 05:23 PM
|- - impala454   QUOTE (Jessica @ Jan 10 2008, 05:23 PM) I...   Jan 10 2008, 05:30 PM
||- - Jessica   QUOTE (impala454 @ Jan 10 2008, 05:30 PM)...   Jan 10 2008, 05:32 PM
|||- - impala454   QUOTE (Jessica @ Jan 10 2008, 05:32 PM) i...   Jan 10 2008, 05:34 PM
|||- - pebkac   QUOTE (impala454 @ Jan 10 2008, 05:34 PM)...   Jan 10 2008, 07:01 PM
|||- - impala454   QUOTE (pebkac @ Jan 10 2008, 07:01 PM) Yo...   Jan 11 2008, 01:52 AM
|||- - pebkac   QUOTE (impala454 @ Jan 11 2008, 01:52 AM)...   Jan 11 2008, 12:14 PM
|||- - impala454   QUOTE (pebkac @ Jan 11 2008, 12:14 PM) I ...   Jan 11 2008, 01:00 PM
||- - Psykopath   QUOTE (impala454 @ Jan 10 2008, 05:30 PM)...   Jan 10 2008, 05:47 PM
|- - Forum Warrior   QUOTE (Jessica @ Jan 10 2008, 05:23 PM) I...   Jan 10 2008, 05:43 PM
|- - Psykopath   QUOTE (Forum Warrior @ Jan 10 2008, 05:43...   Jan 10 2008, 05:51 PM
|- - Jessica   QUOTE (Psykopath @ Jan 10 2008, 05:51 PM)...   Jan 10 2008, 05:54 PM
|- - Oasis   QUOTE (Jessica @ Jan 10 2008, 05:54 PM) j...   Jan 10 2008, 05:56 PM
|- - Jessica   QUOTE (Oasis @ Jan 10 2008, 05:56 PM) I d...   Jan 10 2008, 06:05 PM
|- - Oasis   QUOTE (Jessica @ Jan 10 2008, 06:05 PM) W...   Jan 10 2008, 06:12 PM
- - Inferia   Frankly, we pay for lots of things we don't wa...   Jan 10 2008, 05:38 PM
|- - impala454   QUOTE (Inferia @ Jan 10 2008, 05:38 PM) F...   Jan 10 2008, 05:44 PM
- - Jessica   Youre not paying for me... you are paying for your...   Jan 10 2008, 05:46 PM
- - Watchman   obama and hillary are both CFR/Bilderberg members ...   Jan 10 2008, 06:12 PM
|- - Jessica   QUOTE (Watchman @ Jan 10 2008, 06:12 PM) ...   Jan 10 2008, 06:15 PM
- - Watchman   what type of business are you starting?   Jan 10 2008, 06:14 PM
|- - Oasis   QUOTE (Watchman @ Jan 10 2008, 06:14 PM) ...   Jan 10 2008, 06:20 PM
|- - Watchman   QUOTE (Oasis @ Jan 10 2008, 06:20 PM) Fli...   Jan 10 2008, 06:22 PM
- - FORSAKENR320   i just wanna gather my survival gear quietly, be l...   Jan 10 2008, 06:15 PM
|- - Watchman   QUOTE (FORSAKENR320 @ Jan 10 2008, 06:15 ...   Jan 10 2008, 06:20 PM
||- - FORSAKENR320   QUOTE (Watchman @ Jan 10 2008, 06:20 PM) ...   Jan 10 2008, 06:24 PM
|- - Psykopath   QUOTE (FORSAKENR320 @ Jan 10 2008, 06:15 ...   Jan 10 2008, 06:20 PM
- - TTUAthleticTrainer   Bareback Obama   Jan 10 2008, 06:17 PM
- - Testm0nkey   to Billy's statement earlier about Canadians h...   Jan 10 2008, 06:30 PM
- - TTUAthleticTrainer   yeah yeah, you survivalists are gonna end up like ...   Jan 10 2008, 06:37 PM
|- - FORSAKENR320   QUOTE (TTUAthleticTrainer @ Jan 10 2008, 06...   Jan 10 2008, 06:47 PM
|- - TTUAthleticTrainer   QUOTE (FORSAKENR320 @ Jan 10 2008, 06:47 ...   Jan 10 2008, 06:54 PM
|- - Psykopath   QUOTE (FORSAKENR320 @ Jan 10 2008, 06:47 ...   Jan 10 2008, 10:48 PM
|- - THECHICKEN   QUOTE (Psykopath @ Jan 10 2008, 10:48 PM)...   Jan 10 2008, 11:14 PM
- - Hartmann   Psykopath, I'll get back to your original resp...   Jan 10 2008, 07:34 PM
- - Testm0nkey   i had an on loan canadian professor whos family we...   Jan 10 2008, 09:14 PM
|- - Hartmann   QUOTE (Testm0nkey @ Jan 10 2008, 09:14 PM...   Jan 10 2008, 09:24 PM
- - Testm0nkey   that was my point. for every negative story there...   Jan 10 2008, 09:28 PM
|- - Hartmann   QUOTE (Testm0nkey @ Jan 10 2008, 09:28 PM...   Jan 10 2008, 10:08 PM
- - FORSAKENR320   my viking community will be best suited. trained...   Jan 11 2008, 12:02 AM
|- - Psykopath   QUOTE (FORSAKENR320 @ Jan 11 2008, 12:02 ...   Jan 11 2008, 12:21 AM
- - chook   fuck, i'll just run the post apocalyptic porn ...   Jan 11 2008, 12:20 AM
- - Watchman   I agree with Impala weirdly enough. The solution ...   Jan 11 2008, 01:57 AM
|- - Hartmann   QUOTE (Watchman @ Jan 11 2008, 01:57 AM) ...   Jan 11 2008, 09:09 AM
||- - Spectatrix   QUOTE (Hartmann @ Jan 11 2008, 09:09 AM) ...   Jan 11 2008, 10:39 AM
|- - impala454   QUOTE (Watchman @ Jan 11 2008, 01:57 AM) ...   Jan 11 2008, 10:14 AM
- - Inferia   What about a two tiered universal health care syst...   Jan 11 2008, 09:38 AM
- - THECHICKEN   Can't we just spay and Neuter the poor?   Jan 11 2008, 09:41 AM
- - woody   http://consumerist.com/340948/drug-compani...n-res...   Jan 11 2008, 10:20 AM
|- - Hartmann   QUOTE (woody @ Jan 11 2008, 10:20 AM) htt...   Jan 11 2008, 10:33 AM
- - Testm0nkey   america spends a lot of money on healthcare becaus...   Jan 11 2008, 02:14 PM
|- - Hartmann   QUOTE (Testm0nkey @ Jan 11 2008, 02:14 PM...   Jan 11 2008, 02:24 PM
- - Psykopath   Well apparently we need to work on eliminating all...   Jan 11 2008, 02:32 PM
- - FORSAKENR320   QUOTE (Psykopath @ Jan 11 2008, 02:32 PM)...   Jan 11 2008, 02:36 PM
- - Hartmann   QUOTE (Psykopath @ Jan 11 2008, 02:32 PM)...   Jan 11 2008, 02:56 PM
- - impala454   QUOTE (Psykopath @ Jan 11 2008, 02:32 PM)...   Jan 11 2008, 02:57 PM
|- - Psykopath   QUOTE (impala454 @ Jan 11 2008, 02:57 PM)...   Jan 11 2008, 02:59 PM
|- - impala454   "Hahhaha I know you are but what am I!...   Jan 11 2008, 03:05 PM
||- - FORSAKENR320   QUOTE (impala454 @ Jan 11 2008, 03:05 PM)...   Jan 11 2008, 03:07 PM
||- - Psykopath   QUOTE (FORSAKENR320 @ Jan 11 2008, 03:07 ...   Jan 11 2008, 03:08 PM
||- - impala454   QUOTE (FORSAKENR320 @ Jan 11 2008, 03:07 ...   Jan 11 2008, 03:15 PM
||- - FORSAKENR320   QUOTE (impala454 @ Jan 11 2008, 03:15 PM)...   Jan 11 2008, 03:26 PM
|- - Hartmann   QUOTE (Psykopath @ Jan 11 2008, 02:59 PM)...   Jan 11 2008, 03:12 PM
- - Forum Warrior   QUOTE (Psykopath @ Jan 11 2008, 02:32 PM)...   Jan 13 2008, 02:28 PM
- - FORSAKENR320   QUOTE (Forum Warrior @ Jan 13 2008, 02:28...   Jan 13 2008, 03:08 PM
- - Oasis   QUOTE (Forum Warrior @ Jan 13 2008, 02:28...   Jan 13 2008, 03:20 PM
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