IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )


> Bush's bailing out of the irresponsible
Hartmann
post Dec 6 2007, 10:12 PM
Post #1





Group: Admin
Posts: 3,403
Joined: 23-February 06
From: PDX/TXL
Member No.: 35



http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/busi...mortgage06.html

Of course this still has to go through Congress where it will get a bunch of crap amended to it and blah, blah, blah.

It is not the government's job to intervene on the free market. If people are irresponsible then there is no reason to change the market to cater to them, hurting others who were prepared.


--------------------

"There is a level of cowardice lower than that of the conformist: that of the fashionable non-conformist."
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies
Spectatrix
post Dec 10 2007, 05:44 PM
Post #2





Group: Admin
Posts: 6,906
Joined: 22-February 06
From: Austin
Member No.: 9



I'm not saying mortgage lenders are angels... far from it. I'm just disagreeing that they can arbitrarily up your rates just for the hell of it. Even if they did have a magic margin dial, there are caps built into ARMs that limit how much they can raise the rate at any given time.

From Wiki:

QUOTE
Loan caps provide payment protection against payment shock, and allow a measure of interest rate certainty to those who gamble with initial fixed rates on ARM loans. There are three types of Caps on a typical First Lien Adjustable Rate Mortgage or First Lien Hybrid Adjustable Rate Mortgage.

Initial Adjustment Rate Cap: The majority of loans have a higher cap for initial adjustments that's indexed to the initial fixed period. In other words, the longer the initial fixed term, the more the bank would like to potentially adjust your loan. Typically, this cap is 2-3% above the Start Rate on a loan with an initial fixed rate term of 3 years or lower and 5-6% above the Start Rate on a loan with an initial fixed rate term of 5 years or greater.

Rate Adjustment Cap: This is the maximum amount by which an Adjustable Rate Mortgage may increase on each successive adjustment. Similar to the initial cap, this cap is usually 1% above the Start Rate for loans with an initial fixed term of 3 years or greater and usually 2% above the Start Rate for loans that have an initial fixed term of 5 years or greater

Lifetime Cap: Most First Mortgage loans have a 5% or 6% Life Cap above the Start Rate (this ultimately varies by the lender and credit grade).

* Industry Shorthand for ARM Caps

Inside the business caps are expressed most often by simply the 3 numbers involved that signify each cap. For example, a 5/1 Hybrid ARM may have a cap structure of 5/2/5 (5% initial cap, 2% adjustment cap and 5% lifetime cap) and insiders would call this a 5-2-5 cap. Alternately a 1 year arm might have a 1/1/6 cap (1% initial cap, 1% adjustment cap and 6% lifetime cap) known as a 1-1-6, or alternately expressed as a 1/6 cap (leaving out one digit signifies that the initial and adjustment caps are identical).

* Negative amortization ARM caps

See the complete article for the type of ARM that Negative amortization loans are by nature. Higher risk products, such as First Lien Monthly Adjustable loans with Negative amortization and Home Equity Lines of Credit aka HELOC have different ways of structuring the Cap than a typical First Lien Mortgage. The typical First Lien Monthly Adjustable loans with Negative amortization loan has a life cap for the underlying rate (aka "Fully Indexed Rate") between 9.95% and 12% (maximum assessed interest rate). Some of these loans can have much higher rate ceilings. The fully indexed rate is always listed on the statement, but borrowers are shielded from the full effect of rate increases by the minimum payment, until the loan is recast, which is when principal and interest payments are due that will fully amortize the loan at the fully indexed rate.

* Home Equity Lines of Credit HELOC

Since HELOCs are intended by banks to primarily sit in second lien position, they normally are only capped by the maximum interest rate allowed by law in the state wherein they are issued. For example, Florida currently has an 18% cap on interest rate charges. These loans are risky in the sense that to lenders, they are practically a credit card issued to the borrower, with minimal security in the event of default. They are risky to the borrower in the sense that they are mostly indexed to the Wall Street Journal Prime Rate, which is considered a Spot Index, or a financial indicator that is subject to immediate change (as are the loans based upon the Prime Rate). The risk to borrower being that a financial situation causing the Federal Reserve to raise rates dramatically (see 1980, 2006) would effect an immediate rise in obligation to the borrower, up to the capped rate.


As for "where the hell do you see that?"... taking LIBOR as an example, why would banks in England care what mortgage rates in the US are?


--------------------
QUOTE (pebkac @ Oct 14 2006, 03:15 PM) *
You and your logic.

QUOTE (Foamy)

http://xkcd.com/386/
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Posts in this topic
- Hartmann   Bush's bailing out of the irresponsible   Dec 6 2007, 10:12 PM
- - GOB   yeah, this really pisses me off. people who shoul...   Dec 6 2007, 10:25 PM
- - Jessica   who changed their name to GOB? I cant figure it ou...   Dec 6 2007, 10:29 PM
|- - jonathan83   QUOTE (Jessica @ Dec 6 2007, 10:29 PM) wh...   Dec 7 2007, 12:09 AM
- - GOB   i'm posting from within your womb now, pleas...   Dec 6 2007, 10:30 PM
- - impala454   QUOTE (Hartmann @ Dec 6 2007, 10:12 PM) h...   Dec 6 2007, 11:25 PM
|- - GOB   QUOTE (impala454 @ Dec 6 2007, 11:25 PM) ...   Dec 7 2007, 07:17 AM
- - Spectatrix   The lenders are assholes, but the homeowners are f...   Dec 7 2007, 08:43 AM
- - Hartmann   I think the economy has to suffer sometimes. It is...   Dec 7 2007, 08:56 AM
- - pebkac   I agree with impala (did I just type that?) on the...   Dec 7 2007, 09:42 AM
|- - Hartmann   QUOTE (pebkac @ Dec 7 2007, 09:42 AM) I a...   Dec 7 2007, 09:54 AM
|- - impala454   QUOTE (Hartmann @ Dec 7 2007, 09:54 AM) I...   Dec 7 2007, 10:15 AM
|- - Hartmann   QUOTE (impala454 @ Dec 7 2007, 10:15 AM) ...   Dec 7 2007, 10:52 AM
- - Spectatrix   Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the var...   Dec 7 2007, 11:02 AM
- - impala454   No, ARM loan interest rates set by an index the le...   Dec 7 2007, 11:10 AM
|- - Hartmann   QUOTE (impala454 @ Dec 7 2007, 11:10 AM) ...   Dec 7 2007, 11:38 AM
|- - impala454   QUOTE (Hartmann @ Dec 7 2007, 11:38 AM) R...   Dec 7 2007, 01:36 PM
|- - Hartmann   QUOTE (impala454 @ Dec 7 2007, 01:36 PM) ...   Dec 7 2007, 01:43 PM
- - Hartmann   QUOTE Loan Descriptions Lenders must give you writ...   Dec 7 2007, 11:39 AM
- - Spectatrix   Thanks, Hartmann. While ARM mortgages might be co...   Dec 7 2007, 11:48 AM
|- - pebkac   QUOTE (Spectatrix @ Dec 7 2007, 11:48 AM)...   Dec 7 2007, 01:10 PM
- - blaarg   I feel all the responsibility is on the homeowner....   Dec 7 2007, 12:00 PM
- - Spectatrix   I'm not criticizing the lenders for trying to ...   Dec 7 2007, 12:05 PM
|- - Hartmann   QUOTE (Spectatrix @ Dec 7 2007, 12:05 PM)...   Dec 7 2007, 12:07 PM
- - woody   I blame the home owners and the lenders cause they...   Dec 7 2007, 01:24 PM
|- - pebkac   QUOTE (woody @ Dec 7 2007, 01:24 PM) they...   Dec 7 2007, 01:31 PM
- - Psykopath   Bring on the recession. I want to buy stocks at lo...   Dec 7 2007, 01:25 PM
- - impala454   Oh please... I didn't say or even imply that f...   Dec 7 2007, 01:57 PM
|- - Spectatrix   QUOTE (impala454 @ Dec 7 2007, 01:57 PM) ...   Dec 7 2007, 02:09 PM
|- - Hartmann   QUOTE (impala454 @ Dec 7 2007, 01:57 PM) ...   Dec 7 2007, 02:12 PM
|- - impala454   QUOTE (Hartmann @ Dec 7 2007, 02:12 PM) A...   Dec 9 2007, 02:02 AM
|- - Hartmann   QUOTE (impala454 @ Dec 9 2007, 02:02 AM) ...   Dec 9 2007, 04:59 PM
- - GOB   i just think it's funny how 60% of the people ...   Dec 7 2007, 06:24 PM
- - Testm0nkey   you watch too much jim cramer   Dec 7 2007, 06:31 PM
|- - GOB   QUOTE (Testm0nkey @ Dec 7 2007, 06:31 PM)...   Dec 7 2007, 06:47 PM
- - DaveFireDancer19   impala, its like you're trying to put all the ...   Dec 8 2007, 05:11 PM
|- - pebkac   QUOTE (DaveFireDancer19 @ Dec 8 2007, 05...   Dec 8 2007, 11:56 PM
|- - DaveFireDancer19   QUOTE (pebkac @ Dec 8 2007, 11:56 PM) Wha...   Dec 9 2007, 09:09 AM
- - GOB   uh, when did the lenders get upset? they were the...   Dec 9 2007, 02:21 AM
- - impala454   Haha "attack". The reason I pointed it ...   Dec 9 2007, 06:59 PM
|- - Hartmann   QUOTE (impala454 @ Dec 9 2007, 06:59 PM) ...   Dec 10 2007, 12:44 PM
|- - impala454   QUOTE (Hartmann @ Dec 10 2007, 12:44 PM) ...   Dec 10 2007, 01:06 PM
|- - Hartmann   QUOTE (impala454 @ Dec 10 2007, 01:06 PM)...   Dec 10 2007, 03:06 PM
|- - impala454   QUOTE (Hartmann @ Dec 10 2007, 03:06 PM) ...   Dec 10 2007, 03:09 PM
|- - Hartmann   QUOTE (impala454 @ Dec 10 2007, 03:09 PM)...   Dec 10 2007, 03:15 PM
- - Forum Warrior   I'm actually very surprised Hartmann is disapp...   Dec 9 2007, 08:06 PM
|- - Hartmann   QUOTE (Forum Warrior @ Dec 9 2007, 08:06 ...   Dec 10 2007, 12:39 PM
- - Testm0nkey   theres a big difference between slum lords and peo...   Dec 9 2007, 08:11 PM
- - Forum Warrior   There's also a difference between refurbishing...   Dec 9 2007, 08:36 PM
- - Spectatrix   The banks were stupid. The buyers were stupid. End...   Dec 10 2007, 08:41 AM
- - Testm0nkey   if you have the capital to invest in real estate f...   Dec 10 2007, 12:53 PM
- - Hartmann   I don't understand your logic. I don't ask...   Dec 10 2007, 03:02 PM
- - impala454   QUOTE (Hartmann @ Dec 10 2007, 03:02 PM) ...   Dec 10 2007, 03:06 PM
- - Spectatrix   QUOTE (impala454 @ Dec 10 2007, 03:09 PM)...   Dec 10 2007, 03:42 PM
- - impala454   Uh, and who adjusts those f'n indexes??? Geezu...   Dec 10 2007, 03:48 PM
- - Spectatrix   They're based on broad surveys of banks in gen...   Dec 10 2007, 03:55 PM
- - impala454   Right, they're rates set by BANKS. How about ...   Dec 10 2007, 04:11 PM
|- - Spectatrix   QUOTE (impala454 @ Dec 10 2007, 04:11 PM)...   Dec 10 2007, 05:14 PM
- - johnthedrunk   i really wanted to capitalize on the suckers whose...   Dec 10 2007, 04:25 PM
- - Jessica   Christine: 1 Impala: well, let's face it... -4...   Dec 10 2007, 05:21 PM
|- - impala454   QUOTE (Jessica @ Dec 10 2007, 05:21 PM) C...   Dec 10 2007, 05:26 PM
|- - Jessica   QUOTE (impala454 @ Dec 10 2007, 05:26 PM)...   Dec 10 2007, 05:30 PM
- - impala454   You guys are sad sometimes. You instantly hate ev...   Dec 10 2007, 05:24 PM
|- - Spectatrix   QUOTE (impala454 @ Dec 10 2007, 05:24 PM)...   Dec 10 2007, 05:29 PM
|- - impala454   QUOTE (Spectatrix @ Dec 10 2007, 05:29 PM...   Dec 10 2007, 05:37 PM
- - Spectatrix   I'm not saying mortgage lenders are angels... ...   Dec 10 2007, 05:44 PM
- - Spectatrix   The main point I'm trying to make is that ARMs...   Dec 10 2007, 05:48 PM
- - impala454   Forgive me I'm not following where you're ...   Dec 10 2007, 05:48 PM
|- - Spectatrix   QUOTE (impala454 @ Dec 10 2007, 05:48 PM)...   Dec 10 2007, 06:05 PM
- - Spectatrix   In any case, I'm out. I wash my hands of this...   Dec 10 2007, 06:09 PM
- - impala454   Uh, they all want to make money whether its UK or ...   Dec 10 2007, 08:27 PM
|- - Spectatrix   QUOTE (impala454 @ Dec 10 2007, 08:27 PM)...   Dec 10 2007, 09:29 PM
|- - impala454   QUOTE (Spectatrix @ Dec 10 2007, 09:29 PM...   Dec 10 2007, 10:13 PM
|- - Spectatrix   QUOTE (impala454 @ Dec 10 2007, 10:13 PM)...   Dec 11 2007, 08:59 AM
- - Jessica   LOLZ   Dec 10 2007, 08:33 PM
- - TetraGrammaton Cleric   i don't know how to quit you   Dec 11 2007, 03:42 AM
- - Hartmann   http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/11/business...amp;o...   May 23 2008, 09:53 AM
|- - impala454   QUOTE (Hartmann @ May 23 2008, 10:53 AM) ...   May 23 2008, 10:33 AM
|- - Hartmann   QUOTE (impala454 @ May 23 2008, 11:33 AM)...   May 23 2008, 11:24 AM
- - impala454   Honestly I have noticed a huge boom in storage uni...   May 23 2008, 10:28 AM
- - impala454   I don't even care to have a big expensive hous...   May 23 2008, 12:09 PM
|- - Hartmann   QUOTE (impala454 @ May 23 2008, 01:09 PM)...   May 23 2008, 12:27 PM
|- - Oasis   QUOTE (impala454 @ May 23 2008, 01:09 PM)...   May 23 2008, 12:37 PM
- - impala454   yeah tomball is the complete wrong direction for m...   May 23 2008, 12:32 PM
- - impala454   sweet   May 23 2008, 12:51 PM


Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 24th August 2026 - 02:20 PM
Skin made by: skeedio.com