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impala454
post Aug 7 2007, 10:24 PM
Post #1





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1. Barry Bonds*
2. Hank Aaron
3. Babe Ruth
4. Willie Mays
5. Sammy Sosa*
6. Ken Griffey
7. Frank Robinson
8. Mark McGwire*
9. Harmon Killebrew
10.Rafael Palmeiro*
















*CHEATERS
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Oasis
post Aug 9 2007, 02:11 PM
Post #2





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This was posted by my friend on another board a few months back.

I remember so vividly the day that Cal Ripken broke Gehrig's streak.

My oldest son was an infant, asleep in my lap. I turned on the TV and watched the event unfold, and watched Ripken do his thing, give his speech when the game became "official," and I even welled up a little. I remembered the commercial where the dad was showing various things to his little baby, and grabbed a baseball and whispered reverently to the baby "...and THIS...is a BASEBALL."

So I propped the little guy up and showed him the TV and said "This is history, what we're seeing here. We're sitting here together watching something we'll never see again."

He was sound asleep, but the moment wasn't lost on me.

Never mind that my opinion of Ripken at that point was not very high. I always felt that Ripken was never the superstar everyone made him out to be; his top achievement was the mere act of being really lucky for a long time, taking advantage of modern medicine, and not getting the debilitating disease that Gehrig had. I felt he was unbelievably egotistical, insisting on making management decisions, traveling alone without his teammates, and even being so bold as to take pitch-calling duties away from his catcher and calling them from home plate.

I did not like Cal Ripken.

But none of that took anything away from the fact that he was breaking an unbreakable record. In the era of 162-game seasons, coast-to-coast travel, hyper-competitiveness, weight training, and baseball at light speed, Cal Ripken had played every game, every day, and played HARD. It was huge.

I felt similarly watching Mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa embracing after McGwire broke the record. Even then, there was no question in my mind that McGwire was juiced up on steroids. He had gone from being a muscular but skinny kid to being a bloated behemoth with bad tendons and ligaments all over his body, barely even human anymore. But when the line drive shot into the left field stands, it didn't matter - he was TODAY'S player, playing TODAY'S game with TODAY'S rules and TODAY'S advantages (and disadvantages), and he managed to shatter a record that had stood for years and years.

Baseball, as a game, is rarely different from what it was in the 1890s. Sure, there have been some subtle changes, and over history there have been trends that have changed the style of play slightly, but essentially, it's the same game. What's evolved more dramatically than the game itself have been the things AROUND it. Society, for example, evolved to the point where dark-skinned people were permitted to play. Medicine evolved to the point where you could take a dead-armed pitcher, remove a tendon from his leg and put it into his arm so he could pitch another 10 years. I mean, would Tommy John be an "on the bubble" HOFer if he pitched in 1908? Of course not - he would have blown his arm out, and we'd talk about him the way we talk about Smoky Joe Wood today.

Nutrition has evolved as well. And weight training, which was once taboo in baseball, is now normal. Players take advantage of technology, biology, and whatever else they have at their disposal to get better. Does the fact that John McGraw didn't have a huge coaching staff make Jim Leyland any less of a great manager? Does the fact that Ty Cobb didn't have access to stacks of videotape make Rickey Henderson any less of a great base stealer? Does the fact that the 1954 Indians didn't have a team of advance scouts make the 1986 Mets any less of a great team?

I don't think so.

So yes, Barry Bonds injected his body with anything he could think of to make his muscles bigger. But he still had to step into the box and hit the ball 755 times. And he had to do it against pitchers who were equally doped up. And he had other things making it tough for him that Aaron and Ruth did not have. Babe Ruth never had guys like Bruce Sutter or Trevor Hoffman waiting to shut him down in the late innings. He didn't have to deal with relief specialists designed to come in and get one batter out. He didn't have to finish a game in Texas at 2AM eastern time, fly to Los Angeles and play an afternoon game the next day. He didn't have to have his joints take a pounding on artificial turf. He didn't have split-fingered fastballs, nose-to-toes curveballs, or nasty sliders. He didn't have 24-hour news and sports networks following him around, reporting on his every transgression. He didn't have twice as many teams in the league - and twice as many pitchers to get to know.

None of that makes Babe Ruth any less of a player, and in my mind, it makes Barry Bonds and his approaching record just as legitimate as Ripken, McGwire, Aaron, Gehrig, and Ruth.

I don't know how I'm going to articulate my position on this any better than above paragraphs. The game hasn't changed, but everything around it has. And because of that, I think today's playing field is just as level as it's always been. Almost every record in baseball will eventually be broken by somebody, whether they have a likeable personality or not.

So I'll watch Bonds blast #756 with my son, who is now 11 years old and better able to understand what he's seeing. And when the next guy breaks Bonds' record, we'll sit and talk about the day we watched Bonds break it, and we'll reminisce, and we'll talk about all the great baseball history that's happened between now and then, and how many great players we've seen. And of course I'll have to yammer at him about the great home run hitters from my childhood - guys like Reggie Jackson and Mike Schmidt - and the guys who came before them, like Killebrew and Robinson and Mays and Ruth and Gehrig.

Baseball will never change, and I can't WAIT for Bonds to break the record.


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- impala454   Top 10 All-Time Home Run Hitters   Aug 7 2007, 10:24 PM
- - schwab   eh...i fail to see how he cheated since whatever h...   Aug 7 2007, 10:37 PM
- - impala454   uh it was illegal?   Aug 7 2007, 11:38 PM
|- - James   QUOTE (impala454 @ Aug 8 2007, 12:38 AM) ...   Aug 9 2007, 01:36 PM
- - Dogmeat   c;mon now yall. his penis was so big he had to tak...   Aug 8 2007, 01:52 AM
- - impala454   So how about they call carry knives on the field a...   Aug 9 2007, 01:44 PM
- - James   Except fighting is against the rules. Your lack o...   Aug 9 2007, 01:53 PM
|- - impala454   QUOTE (James @ Aug 9 2007, 02:53 PM) Exce...   Aug 9 2007, 02:15 PM
|- - Oasis   QUOTE (impala454 @ Aug 9 2007, 03:15 PM) ...   Aug 9 2007, 02:50 PM
|- - James   QUOTE (impala454 @ Aug 9 2007, 03:15 PM) ...   Aug 9 2007, 03:02 PM
|- - impala454   QUOTE (James @ Aug 9 2007, 04:02 PM) Yet ...   Aug 9 2007, 03:09 PM
- - moebary   I'm almost positive that somewhere in baseball...   Aug 9 2007, 01:57 PM
|- - Oasis   QUOTE (moebary @ Aug 9 2007, 02:57 PM) I...   Aug 9 2007, 02:06 PM
- - Oasis   This was posted by my friend on another board a fe...   Aug 9 2007, 02:11 PM
|- - blaarg   QUOTE (Oasis @ Aug 9 2007, 03:11 PM) This...   Aug 9 2007, 02:32 PM
|- - Oasis   QUOTE (blaarg @ Aug 9 2007, 03:32 PM) Am ...   Aug 9 2007, 02:37 PM
- - impala454   but it's not a level playing field. steroids ...   Aug 9 2007, 02:57 PM
|- - Oasis   QUOTE (impala454 @ Aug 9 2007, 03:57 PM) ...   Aug 9 2007, 03:44 PM
|- - impala454   QUOTE (Oasis @ Aug 9 2007, 04:44 PM) That...   Aug 9 2007, 03:51 PM
- - James   Yes you can. It's called a confession. Not e...   Aug 9 2007, 03:15 PM
|- - impala454   QUOTE (James @ Aug 9 2007, 04:15 PM) Yes ...   Aug 9 2007, 03:21 PM
- - Oasis   I'm saying it was NOT A PUNISHABLE OFFENSE. I...   Aug 9 2007, 04:13 PM
- - impala454   I know why they looked the other way, but IMO it s...   Aug 9 2007, 07:24 PM
- - Epic   honestly, there were plenty of ways for Ruth to c...   Aug 9 2007, 08:11 PM
|- - impala454   QUOTE (Epic @ Aug 9 2007, 09:11 PM) i thi...   Aug 10 2007, 08:28 AM
- - jwttu   i just think bonds is an ass, he never seems happy   Aug 10 2007, 11:16 AM
- - impala454   yeah that little tantrum he threw after being 0-30...   Aug 10 2007, 11:37 AM
- - impala454   LOLOLOL bond's 756 ball gets an asterisk prin...   Sep 26 2007, 11:45 AM
- - cmac   and they're still happy to be receiving it. s...   Sep 26 2007, 01:29 PM
- - THECHICKEN   Yeah, how dare he do something in the past that wa...   Sep 26 2007, 01:41 PM
- - impala454   oh boo hoo ya buncha crybabies. if they didnt thi...   Sep 26 2007, 03:03 PM
- - Epic   it really seems that everyone who is upset with bo...   Sep 26 2007, 03:10 PM
- - impala454   so if he was convicted of using steroids, was it s...   Sep 26 2007, 03:13 PM
- - Epic   part of it will always be that. steroids, if he u...   Sep 26 2007, 04:35 PM
- - impala454   no way. its sad to me that some people can't ...   Sep 26 2007, 04:57 PM
- - Epic   i just think its funny that people will make a com...   Sep 26 2007, 06:26 PM
- - Oasis   The entire thing is a farce. And you know, the Ho...   Sep 26 2007, 06:29 PM
- - impala454   ok but being racist or doing coke doesn't help...   Sep 26 2007, 09:41 PM
|- - Oasis   QUOTE (impala454 @ Sep 26 2007, 10:41 PM)...   Sep 27 2007, 01:17 PM
|- - impala454   QUOTE (Oasis @ Sep 27 2007, 02:17 PM) Rac...   Sep 27 2007, 02:02 PM
- - cmac   regardless of if he used steroids or not, he still...   Sep 27 2007, 08:01 AM
- - moebary   the armor just makes him a pussy   Sep 27 2007, 09:06 AM
- - impala454   your batting average will go up when you hit balls...   Sep 27 2007, 09:06 AM
|- - Oasis   QUOTE (impala454 @ Sep 27 2007, 10:06 AM)...   Sep 27 2007, 01:19 PM
- - cmac   hitting an 80mph ball is no easy feat either. an...   Sep 27 2007, 09:21 AM
|- - impala454   QUOTE (cmac @ Sep 27 2007, 10:21 AM) hitt...   Sep 27 2007, 10:15 AM
- - cmac   in the 80s and early 90s it wasn't popular to ...   Sep 27 2007, 10:27 AM
|- - impala454   QUOTE (cmac @ Sep 27 2007, 11:27 AM) in t...   Sep 27 2007, 12:09 PM
- - cmac   i meant 5 or so a season. and like i said i don...   Sep 27 2007, 01:11 PM
- - Oasis   I'm mainly talking about competitive advantage...   Sep 27 2007, 02:24 PM
- - impala454   ah.. well yeah no doubt old records would get shat...   Sep 27 2007, 02:36 PM


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