New York goes insane, Felony to sell M-rated games to minors Options

[Spectatrix]

http://gamepolitics.com/2007/05/30/another...rs-into-felons/
http://inventorspot.com/felonytosellgames
http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=A08696&sh=t

Long story short: On May 30th, New York politicians proposed a bill that would make it a felony for retailers to sell games including "depraved violence and indecent images" (i.e. most M-rated games, possibly some T-rated ones too?) to folks under age 17. It would be a class E felony, which means 1-4 years in prison.

On May 31st, it passed in the New York Assembly 130 to 10. I'm not sure by what margin the corresponding legislation in the state senate passed by earlier in the month. The bill has passed and all that remains is for it to be signed into law by New York's governor.

Is it just me or is this MAJOR overkill? I'll admit that I disagree with putting legal age restrictions on the sale of games and movies in general, but I can see why people would support such legislation. However, anything more than a misdemeanor for such a "crime" is asinine.

[Spectatrix]

did anyone bother to check the existing laws?

this would seem to be pretty consistent with laws already in place:
http://law.onecle.com/new-york/penal/PEN0235.21_235.21.html
New York Penal Law Section 234.21:

all they're doing is extending this law to video games, which makes sense. I was unable to find anything that would confirm what people are saying about 1-4 year sentencing though. section 235.24 actually releases the employer from responsibility should their employee commit the crime without their knowledge.

here's the actual sentencing from New York Penal Law Section 70.00
http://law.onecle.com/new-york/penal/PEN070.00_70.00.html

so, I'd doubt that some lil cashier at best buy selling an M rated game would receive much prison time. at least, not as much as the owner of some pr0n shop selling debbie does dallas to a five year old for the 3rd time.

I got the 1-4 years thing from this site: http://www.joystiq.com/2007/05/30/new-york...me-legislation/. I hadn't looked at the penal code in enough detail to find the alternate sentencing.

The difference between this and current legislation regarding the dissemination of indecent materials is that it is illegal for minors to view pornographic material. It is NOT illegal for a minor to play a violent or sexually explicit (non-pornographic) video game or watch an R-rated movie. Thus, distributing porn or other "indecent material" to a minor is facilitating a crime, whereas selling a M-rated game or R-rated movie ticket to a minor is not.

[impala454]

I got the 1-4 years thing from this site: http://www.joystiq.com/2007/05/30/new-york...me-legislation/. I hadn't looked at the penal code in enough detail to find the alternate sentencing.

The difference between this and current legislation regarding the dissemination of indecent materials is that it is illegal for minors to view pornographic material. It is NOT illegal for a minor to play a violent or sexually explicit (non-pornographic) video game or watch an R-rated movie. Thus, distributing porn or other "indecent material" to a minor is facilitating a crime, whereas selling a M-rated game or R-rated movie ticket to a minor is not.

you're mixing up your arguments here. this law doesn't say it's illegal for a minor to play a rated M video game, it says it's illegal to sell it to minors. if you'll look at the post I made with the similiar law which is already in place (in post #26), it clearly states in part 2( that selling a minor a ticket to a film which contains the described material is in fact a class E felony.

[Spectatrix]

you're mixing up your arguments here. this law doesn't say it's illegal for a minor to play a rated M video game, it says it's illegal to sell it to minors. if you'll look at the post I made with the similiar law which is already in place (in post #26), it clearly states in part 2( that selling a minor a ticket to a film which contains the described material is in fact a class E felony.

No, I'm not mixing up my arguments, though perhaps I wasn't clear enough. The law you quoted is with regards to the distribution of pornographic materials, specifically "nudity, sexual conduct or sado-masochistic abuse and which is harmful to minors". Here's what I'm saying:

#1 It's illegal for minors to view porn -> Felony to distribute porn (magazines, films, tickets to NC-17 films, etc)
#2 It's NOT illegal for minors to view rated R movies -> It's NOT a felony to sell tickets for rated-R movies
#3 It's NOT illegal for minors to play rated M and AO games -> It shouldn't be a felony to sell such games to minors

I'm saying that #3 has more in common with #2 than it does with #1. This law isn't with regards to pornographic content (at least not exclusively). It's regarding violent content, specifically "rape, dismemberment, physical torture, mutilation or evisceration of a human being".

If they were talking specifically about pornographic games, then I'd say that making it a felony to sell such games to minors is consistent with their current legislation. I still wouldn't support it, but at least it's consistent.

[impala454]

it doesn't say pornographic movies, it says movies with any nudity whatsoever. however, the video game industry does not specifically categorize games with nudity (or sexual content for that matter), they rate them M. so this is the only way for a law to address those specific games. it's honestly the game industry's own fault for not developing a good enough rating system. they obviously don't want a rating system that tells parents there's nudity in their games, because then wouldn't sells as many!

do I agree with the law? no not really, but it is most definitely consistent with the existing law, in the best way it can be.

either way, I highly doubt the best buy cashier selling Gears of War to a 15 year old kid is going to get four years in prison.

[Spectatrix]

it doesn't say pornographic movies, it says movies with any nudity whatsoever.

Read again. It says "nudity, sexual conduct or sado-masochistic abuse and which is harmful to minors." I'm no lawyer, but I believe that second part is to distinguish between seeing someone's naked butt and full frontal nudity or explicit sex.

But again, we're not lawyers, so us arguing about the finer points of New York's penal code is probably an exercise in futility.

Ignoring precedent for the moment, since it's unclear, I think this (and similar crimes) should be a misdemeanor. However, I agree that it's unlikely that a clerk charged with this crime would be sentenced to much (if any) jail time. Even so, it looks really bad for someone to have a felony on their criminal record.