Day of Infamy Options

[cupcake]

65 years ago, on this day, Japan attacked Pearl Harbor.

When the Dec. 7, 1941, onslaught was over, there were 2,403 dead and thousands others wounded.

Besides the mass causalities in the two waves of attacks that lasted less than two hours, the Japanese also had sunk or damaged 18 ships and destroyed more than 180 aircraft.

It was, as President Franklin D. Roosevelt would declare, "a day of infamy."

The next day, America was at war.

Although it was a day of great tragedy, it was also a day that revived our national pride and strengthened our determination as a nation.

This spirit of unity and reborn patriotism had "awakened the sleeping giant" and ultimately led us to victory and the end of World War II.

I have a really hard time believing that if that happened today, America would have the mettle to carry out an all-out offensive on two geographic fronts, be able to accept the mass casualties (ours and collateral), indiscriminate carpet bombing, and eventual use of atomic bombs. The media would have none of that. The politicians would be talking out both sides of their mouths. The "call to arms" would fall on deaf ears.

We would have lost WWII had it been fought in the 21st century. No doubt in my mind.

[Hartmann]

Are you seriously trying to compare WW2 technology to what we have today? The technology gap of today is much different than that of 50 years ago.

Where in my post do I compare the technology of then to the technology of today? I was making a comparison to similar situations, lots and lots of technology and not enough man power.

[Billy]

Where in my post do I compare the technology of then to the technology of today? I was making a comparison to similar situations, lots and lots of technology and not enough man power.

But it's a bad comparison because Germany's technology was not that much more advanced. Yes, they had guns that wouldn't jam, ships that could reach speeds no one else could do. The japanese had a fighter plane that was unmatched in agility (the spitfire). But they were not great enough differences. It's not like Germany had these ships and the rest of the world was still using the musket. Unlike now. Most of these countries use outdated soviet technology, whereas we continued to advance. Today, we can destroy nations from afar by bombing their infrastructure and military bases by firing missiles that travel 70+ miles. We know everything they do, their every move from eyes in space.

Iraq had 900,000 troops. We had 100,000. We won with fewer than a thousand casulties. Hmmm.

edit: And let's not forget what really ended world war 2: the nuclear bomb. A lot of countries were trying to develop this, and the country who got it first ended up winning.

[Hartmann]

But it's a bad comparison because Germany's technology was not that much more advanced. Yes, they had guns that wouldn't jam, ships that could reach speeds no one else could do. The japanese had a fighter plane that was unmatched in agility (the spitfire). But they were not great enough differences. It's not like Germany had these ships and the rest of the world was still using the musket. Unlike now. Most of these countries use outdated soviet technology, whereas we continued to advance. Today, we can destroy nations from afar by bombing their infrastructure and military bases by firing missiles that travel 70+ miles. We know everything they do, their every move from eyes in space.

Iraq had 900,000 troops. We had 100,000. We won with fewer than a thousand casulties. Hmmm.

edit: And let's not forget what really ended world war 2: the nuclear bomb. A lot of countries were trying to develop this, and the country who got it first ended up winning.

You aren't serious are you? Not that much more advanced? Germany had ballistic missile capability before the U.S. knew the word.

The Spitfire was British, you are referring to the Japanese Mitsubishi A6M Zero. But I am not talking about the Japanese (they were still using bamboo for stuff).

I was talking about the Germans who invented the Fischer-Tropsch process to create synthetic fuel, jet power with swept wing aerodynamics and those cases the rest of the world was using "muskets". The British had a jet but it was slow as all get out and the Americans barely got their jet in the air by the time the war was over. Had Hitler been focused and not a psychopath he could have easily taken Britain by full assault.

The Germans bombed the hell out of the British, so that doesn't necessarily win anything, oh and they fired missiles that flew 70+ miles to land on residential areas.

Look at the Polish at the beginning of the war, or even the Russians (or the British), they were using outdated planes, tanks, and tactics. The Poles failed to hold their country but that was because they were completely overwhelmed. The Russians quickly mobilized their resources and moved production facilities east of the Urals and replaced their fabric covered aircraft with modernized ones.


Your point about Iraq is taken, but that goes back to a post I made earlier about the bombing campaign...

Oh, and yeah, we may have won the nuclear race, but look at who was on the team (Oppenheimer, Einstein, etc.). I wonder what would have happened had they stayed in Germany? Also, evidence was found after the war that the Germans were a few months away from a functional nuclear weapon.

Oh, and you know that really cool plane that's a giant wing (the B-2), yeah, the Germans had that 60 years ago:

[impala454]

You aren't serious are you? Not that much more advanced? Germany had ballistic missile capability before the U.S. knew the word.

uh, no. you're comparing what they had to ballistic missiles?

I was talking about the Germans who invented the Fischer-Tropsch process to create synthetic fuel, jet power with swept wing aerodynamics and those cases the rest of the world was using "muskets". The British had a jet but it was slow as all get out and the Americans barely got their jet in the air by the time the war was over. Had Hitler been focused and not a psychopath he could have easily taken Britain by full assault.

I suppose you're referring to the Meserschmitt Me 262, the first jet fighter, developed by germany. the illustrious difference this thing made was that it killed 150 allied aircraft in exchange for losing 100 me 262s. wow what a huge difference that made in the war... the american P51 mustang made a hell of a lot more difference, shooting down 5,000 enemy aircraft & destroying 4,100 more on the ground, in exchange for 840 P51s lost.

The Germans bombed the hell out of the British, so that doesn't necessarily win anything, oh and they fired missiles that flew 70+ miles to land on residential areas.

the blasted large bombs with jets on them in the general direction of london and just happened to hit it enough to set it on fire... i wouldn't exactly call that some dramatic technology, and it sure as hell wont help you defend yourself.

Oh, and yeah, we may have won the nuclear race, but look at who was on the team (Oppenheimer, Einstein, etc.). I wonder what would have happened had they stayed in Germany?

they'd have been cremated alive in a concentration camp

Also, evidence was found after the war that the Germans were a few months away from a functional nuclear weapon.

2nd place doesn't really count in that race then does it but if they'd had it, i guess superior technology would have made the difference now wouldn't it.

Oh, and you know that really cool plane that's a giant wing (the B-2), yeah, the Germans had that 60 years ago:

what the germans had was a design that didn't f'n work. the thing never flew a single mission. they proved impossible to control until we built the thing with computer avionics. the closest thing that actually flew before the B2 was the northrop american developed flying wing. but they scrapped it because the thing had a tendency to flip.

see, i think you're going too much off of germany's designs and plans, rather than their execution. designs are great and germany was definitely cutting edge, but blueprints don't kill. shoot that's probably one of the things that attracts scientists from all over the world to the US. we can afford to build new technologies that anyone dreams up.