Religious/Philosophical discussion, your thoughts Options

[TetraGrammaton C...]

this thread was inspired by the atheist video thread

we have not had one of these in a while. i thought it would be interesting if people wanted to have an ungoing discussion about what beliefs/morals/religious ideas/scruples they have and why they have them.

i will try to interject myself as a catalyst when i have time.

i would ask that no one is too inconsiderate of other people's ideas. however, i do not think their is anything wrong with light humor or logical criticism.



as for religious trends, it seems that our generation is having difficulties with Christianity, ranging from "I'm spiritual, not religious" to the casual "Christian" that does not really believe in Jesus, but believes in the Christian god. I have met several people who treat religion like a buffet, picking and choosing which particular characteristics of the ethos that seem most suitable. this seems to be indicative of a deterioration of religion in general, as if what was once considered dogmatic is now flexible and relative. aside from the particular personal relevance to our own lives, there also exists a greater societal relevance. what will change in our country if we are on a religious downslope? can religion die out or is it cyclical? who will win flying shark vs. flying crocodile? what about a flying spaghetti monster? does it come with breadsticks? when was the last time you ate at olive garden? etc. etc.

[Hartmann]

I have a lot I could write on free will and predetermination but I'll try to keep it short.

By disagreeing with free will you proving that it exists (in a way). You have the ability to disagree, to go your own way, if you didn't, then you would be forced to believe what God wants you to.

God doesn't need you. He doesn't need me. But He wants us.

The only predetermined things that I believe exists are this... 2 things will happen at some point in the future.

1. Christ will return
2. I will die

I am guessing the second will occur first, but I know for a fact, one of those things is certain.


For those looking for good reading about free will and beliefs, read Ecclesiastes. Solomon's account of what life is like when you have everything and still want something more. Considering Solomon was one of the wealthiest kings in all of history he's a pretty good source.

[Billy]

I have a lot I could write on free will and predetermination but I'll try to keep it short.

By disagreeing with free will you proving that it exists (in a way). You have the ability to disagree, to go your own way, if you didn't, then you would be forced to believe what God wants you to.

God doesn't need you. He doesn't need me. But He wants us.

The only predetermined things that I believe exists are this... 2 things will happen at some point in the future.

1. Christ will return
2. I will die

I am guessing the second will occur first, but I know for a fact, one of those things is certain.
For those looking for good reading about free will and beliefs, read Ecclesiastes. Solomon's account of what life is like when you have everything and still want something more. Considering Solomon was one of the wealthiest kings in all of history he's a pretty good source.

What if I were programmed to disagree? Or by nature, I don't believe in a god. Is that free will? I don't think so.

In the past, on the subject of free will, I asked the question: Could you go to some random person's house, right now, and kill them? I am 100% sure I can not make that choice. And I am 100% sure you can't make that choice. The answer is always no. You do not have the will to do that, as you are controlled by the fear of repurcussion of doing so, or the natural morality to know not to do it. Though every one of us is capable of doing so, not one here would.

That is not free will. You can argue and argue and argue if you wanted to, you would, yet you can not prove me wrong. You can't go do it. Your "choice" to do so, is dictated by consequence. And the truth is, all of our choices are dictated by consequence. Everything we "choose" is based on some past experience. Completely calculated and exact.

If I were wrong about this, the FBI's method of profiling to find and catch criminals would not be nearly as effective as it is.

[Trespass]

What if I were programmed to disagree? Or by nature, I don't believe in a god. Is that free will? I don't think so.

In the past, on the subject of free will, I asked the question: Could you go to some random person's house, right now, and kill them? I am 100% sure I can not make that choice. And I am 100% sure you can't make that choice. The answer is always no. You do not have the will to do that, as you are controlled by the fear of repurcussion of doing so, or the natural morality to know not to do it. Though every one of us is capable of doing so, not one here would.

That is not free will. You can argue and argue and argue if you wanted to, you would, yet you can not prove me wrong. You can't go do it. Your "choice" to do so, is dictated by consequence. And the truth is, all of our choices are dictated by consequence. Everything we "choose" is based on some past experience. Completely calculated and exact.

If I were wrong about this, the FBI's method of profiling to find and catch criminals would not be nearly as effective as it is.

So because one person CHOOSES not to do something because of the reprecussions (when some choose to do it) it means no free will?

That makes less sense than souls in space.

[Billy]

So because one person CHOOSES not to do something because of the reprecussions (when some choose to do it) it means no free will?

That makes less sense than souls in space.

What doesn't make sense?

You have two choices, but you can only choose one. Is that choice?

No. I think people think because they have choice, they have free will. They think they can actually choose, when in reality, the choice they would have chosen, would always be chosen.

If you do not understand, it's not my problem.

[Trespass]

What doesn't make sense?

You have two choices, but you can only choose one. Is that choice?

No. I think people think because they have choice, they have free will. They think they can actually choose, when in reality, the choice they would have chosen, would always be chosen.

If you do not understand, it's not my problem.

ha ha ha, no i understand what you saying... im saying that its stupid. Your telling me BECAUSE i make a choice i didn't make a choice because i only did one of them.... so to you, the only way to have free will is to have a time machine and do both????

nevermind, if you can't see it i most likely can't help lol

[Billy]

ha ha ha, no i understand what you saying... im saying that its stupid. Your telling me BECAUSE i make a choice i didn't make a choice because i only did one of them.... so to you, the only way to have free will is to have a time machine and do both????

nevermind, if you can't see it i most likely can't help lol

Yeah, laugh out of loud and call another concept "stupid" because you don't agree. You get a gold star for best supporting argument.

[Trespass]

Yeah, laugh out of loud and call another concept "stupid" because you don't agree. You get a gold star for best supporting argument.

Sorry, i'll refrain from stating the obvious from now on, sorry peon.

(oh and for the record im not calling your souls as energy thing stupid, i actually like that Point of view)