NBC Options

[pebkac]

http://www.comcast.net/tv/index.jsp?cat=TE...mp;cvqh=itn_nbc

Wow. If NBC says it, it must be true. Not that I necessarily disagree, but why do they think they can all of a sudden define what is and isn't a civil war?

[cupcake]

it's murky. but at the base level....we are western we hail primarily from europe/christian ideals.

they are eastern and muslim. immediately that creates a huge gap in comprehension. they digest things differently than we do.

it's been my experience that eastern muslims do not comprehend freedom at all. they are an extreme group. and they need governing by extreme methods, because left to their own devices they are far too volatile a group to ever "just get along". by extreme I do not mean blow themselves up...I mean even moderate muslims take their religion very seriously, whereas most of us are more chill about it.

they (even moderates) see us as infidels. our govt on their land is sacrilige (sp). whether we are there for the "right" intentions or not (right in our eyes, that is "freedom from oppression, inherent rights as free men, etc").

the only real way to keep these people in check is to scare them. either with religion (the throne of saudi, cleric rulers) or by the gun (dictators). very few muslim countries elect their own govt...and those that do have had a close relationship with the west for many years (pakistan and turkey spring to mind).

it's not something that they can comprehend over night. which is essentially what we threw on them byt the swift takeover of their country. we freed them. and at first they were stoked and appreciateive.

but in doing so, we opened the flood gates for all the wild ass mofos to express themselves too. and they don't do it in the voting booth (as we all know now). they do it violently and indiscriminately.

once normal people doing their daily deeds started dying, their perception of our role changed to "this wasn't happening before the americans were here".

the real victims of this war are not the insurgents, saddam or his family, our own troop casualties. instead they are actually the people we were originally trying to help; the iraqi civilians (so Bush says...though I tend to think that the humanitarian justification was merely a great thing to tell the world and the american people...less guilt).

IMO this war was a christmas present to his father. this war was motivated by money, fear, and shotty intel.

not out of the goodness of Bush's heart.

we have destroyed any sense of normality for the citizens of iraq. they are getting blown the fuck up on a daily basis for no reason at all. this wouldn't be happening if we never went in. saddam was a contained threat. yes he was a dickhead, but he had control of his wildass country. and while he was resistant to the sanctions against him, that was all bravado and him wanting to look rad. time has shown he was really no threat at all.

I think it's a sad deal all around. and from the outset I was against it. our battlefront and "free and clear" pass from the international to fuck shit up was in the stan. but the govt obviously had a different agenda, and we let that slip through our fingers.

saddam could have waited until the dust settled a bit.