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> War in Iraq helped terrorists
pebkac
post Sep 24 2006, 01:46 PM
Post #1


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http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/na...-home-headlines

QUOTE
Spy Agencies Say Iraq War Fuels Terror
The conflict spreads extremism and serves as a laboratory for deadly tactics, says a bleak analysis by 16 U.S. intelligence units.
By Greg Miller, Times Staff Writer
September 24, 2006

WASHINGTON — The war in Iraq has made global terrorism worse by fanning Islamic radicalism and providing a training ground for lethal methods that are increasingly being exported to other countries, according to a sweeping assessment by U.S. intelligence agencies.

The classified document, which represents a consensus view of all 16 U.S. intelligence agencies, paints a considerably bleaker picture of the impact of the Iraq war than Bush administration or U.S. intelligence officials have acknowledged publicly, according to officials familiar with the assessment.

"They conclude that the Iraq war has made it worse," said a government official familiar with the document who spoke on condition of anonymity because of its classified nature.

President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney repeatedly have described the war in Iraq as the central front in the war on terrorism and argue that Americans are safer as a result of the administration's policies.

The report, titled "Trends in Global Terrorism: Implications for the United States," was completed and described to U.S. government officials in April but not made public. The document is what is known as a National Intelligence Estimate, or NIE, which is designed to represent the U.S. intelligence community's most comprehensive treatment of a subject.

The 30-page report documents an array of disturbing trends in the war on terrorism and focuses on forces that are contributing to the evolution of Islamic terrorist networks from centralized structures to an increasingly fragmented ideological movement.

"It paints a fairly stark picture of what we all know, and that this is a movement that is spreading and gaining momentum around the world," said the official familiar with the document. "Things like the Iraq war have given the terrorists recruiting tools and places to ply their trade and a training ground."

The official said the estimate touches on a number of factors fueling the jihadist movement, but that "the reference to Iraq was the main one."

A U.S. intelligence official who has seen the document said that many of the report's findings were outlined in a speech in San Antonio in April by Gen. Michael V. Hayden, the former principal deputy director of national intelligence. Hayden has since become director of the CIA.

Hayden did not single out the Iraq war in the speech as a particularly powerful force shaping terrorist networks. But he did acknowledge "the centrality of Iraq" and said the conflict there and how it is portrayed in Islamic media continue to cultivate support for the global jihadist movement.

In that speech, Hayden said that the global jihadist movement "is spreading and adjusting to our counterterrorism efforts, and it is also exploiting the communications revolution, the Internet."

While describing the Al Qaeda terrorist network as still the most dangerous threat to the United States, Hayden said that Islamic activists were increasingly identifying themselves as jihadists, and that they were "increasing in both their number and in their geographic dispersion."

Hayden went on to say how factors fueling the spread of the movement, including "entrenched grievances — corruption, historic injustice, even fear of Western domination — leave many in parts of the Islamic world with feelings of anger and a sense of powerlessness."

The Bush administration has made the case that a democratic government in the Middle East would serve as a beacon to other nations, providing new hope to populations of disaffected Muslims.

"The world is safer because Saddam Hussein is no longer in power," Bush said in his speech to the nation on the fifth anniversary of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. "The safety of America depends on the outcome of the battle in the streets of Baghdad." He also said that Americans were "safer, but we are not yet safe" from terrorism.

Bush and Cheney frequently have dismissed suggestions that the U.S. presence in Iraq has inflamed anger toward the United States, arguing that U.S. forces were not in Baghdad on Sept. 11, 2001.

In the run-up to November midterm elections, Republicans in Congress have sought to emphasize their credentials on national security and fighting terrorism, uncoupling those issues from the war in Iraq, which is unpopular with voters.

In public testimony and unclassified documents, U.S. intelligence officials have for several years been pointing to the more troubling consequences of the drawn-out conflict in Iraq. In particular, officials have highlighted the anger that Muslim extremists feel about the U.S. presence in the region — which has also been one of Osama bin Laden's rallying cries.

Intelligence officials have also pointed to the flow of Muslims from other countries, including Europe, to Iraq to join the insurgency. Those who survive the fighting often leave and return to their home countries with dangerous new experience in urban fighting, bomb-making and — perhaps most important — credibility with other potential Muslim recruits.

Last week, the House Intelligence Committee warned in a report that the danger from terrorists faced by the U.S. was "more alarming than the threat that existed" before Sept. 11. The document also warned that Iraq had become a breeding ground for terrorists who might target other countries.

The April intelligence estimate was produced under the direction of David B. Low, the national intelligence officer for transnational threats. Its conclusions were first reported by the New York Times on its website on Saturday.

National Intelligence Estimates are produced by the National Intelligence Council, a group of high-level analysts from government and academic institutions. The council was previously based at the CIA. But following intelligence overhauls passed in the wake of the Sept. 11 attacks, the council was restructured to report to Director of National Intelligence John D. Negroponte.


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QUOTE (Spectatrix @ Oct 13 2006, 09:51 PM) *
Holy shit, pebkac, you're awesome!



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The Fanatic
post Sep 26 2006, 06:06 PM
Post #2


Do they ignore parts of reality?


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QUOTE (impala454 @ Sep 26 2006, 01:04 PM)

QUOTE
how the hell does us invading Iraq give al-qaeda the ability to recruit in iraq?  this makes absolutely no sense.


Imagine a scenario. A militant group exists in America that you are fundamentally oppossed to because of their fanatical ideas regarding nationalism and religion. A year later the chinese invade and take over the united states. You join the militant group as an outlet to fight the Chinese, not so much because you support their ideals but you are united in wanting to get the chinese out of america. This is exactly what happened in Iraq. Iraq has been occupied by a foreign imperialistic power (the US) and now the Iraqis want their independence. As A result they join "terrorist" (some may actually be terroristic in nature) organizations to fight the US. Seems logical enough to me. Not to mention, many people in Iraq held contempt for the US before the invasion because of sanctions and general US hostility worldwide. The invasion made targeting the US easier and more rational for these groups.

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this has got to be the most naive common belief on this topic. everybody believes this. why? i have no idea. we ass-raped the man back in the early 90s. then he starts avoiding weapons inspections for WMD. the guy hates us, he kills his own people, whats to stop him from trying to put together some WMD to kill us??


Almost ALL of the WMD that he used were supplied by the United States in the 1980's. Let's not forget that the United States has more WMD then any other country in the world and we threaten the world community on an almost daily basis.

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Oh that's wonderful... lets avoid all contact with the outside world. If the UK gets invaded lets not go help them, we wouldn't want to put troops closer to the terrorists. WW2 was a huge mistake... we gave germany easier access to kill our troops


Terrorists are fundamentally different then national armies. A nation can be brought down by destroying infastructure, cities, moral etc. A terrorist organization can fundamentally not be defeated, unless every member is killed. What is ironic is that Bush calls this a "War On Terror", however this war which had nothing to do with terror has strengthened and emboldened the terrorists.


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A psychotic world we live in. The madmen are in power. How long have we known this? Faced this? And--how many of us do know it? Perhaps if you know you are insane then you are not insane. Or you are becoming sane, finally. Waking up. I suppose only a few are aware of all this. Isolated persons here and there. But the broad masses... what do they think? All these hundreds of thousands in this city, here. Do they imagine that they live in a sane world? Or do they guess, glimpse, the truth...?

-Philip K. Dick
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Posts in this topic
- pebkac   War in Iraq helped terrorists   Sep 24 2006, 01:46 PM
- - Dogmeat   The way I look at it is this: If we wouldn't ...   Sep 24 2006, 02:05 PM
- - Spivey   QUOTE (Dogmeat @ Sep 24 2006, 02:05 PM)The wa...   Sep 24 2006, 03:34 PM
- - Timbo   Dude, fucking duh. Timbo   Sep 24 2006, 04:44 PM
- - lamont's lament   an optimist would say that the war helped stimulat...   Sep 24 2006, 05:29 PM
- - Spivey   QUOTE (lamont's lament @ Sep 24 2006, 05:...   Sep 24 2006, 05:40 PM
- - pebkac   QUOTE (Spivey @ Sep 24 2006, 06:40 PM)War usu...   Sep 24 2006, 05:42 PM
- - Spivey   QUOTE (pebkac @ Sep 24 2006, 05:42 PM)Just no...   Sep 24 2006, 05:50 PM
- - lamont's lament   QUOTE (Spivey @ Sep 24 2006, 06:40 PM)War usu...   Sep 24 2006, 07:02 PM
- - Testm0nkey   this isnt a new revelation   Sep 24 2006, 07:13 PM
- - FORSAKENR320   QUOTE (Testm0nkey @ Sep 24 2006, 07:13 PM)THE...   Sep 25 2006, 12:45 PM
- - impala454   it's funny how their main source is: QUOTE ...   Sep 25 2006, 02:28 PM
- - Testm0nkey   destroying the way of life in a country breeds ter...   Sep 25 2006, 03:36 PM
- - schwab   QUOTE (impala454 @ Sep 25 2006, 02:28 PM)I do...   Sep 25 2006, 04:08 PM
- - impala454   QUOTE (schwab @ Sep 25 2006, 05:08 PM)there a...   Sep 25 2006, 04:54 PM
- - pebkac   QUOTE (impala454 @ Sep 25 2006, 05:54 PM)I wa...   Sep 25 2006, 04:56 PM
- - impala454   QUOTE (pebkac @ Sep 25 2006, 05:56 PM)I thoug...   Sep 26 2006, 10:13 AM
- - chook   The problem is that Saddamn wasn't down with A...   Sep 26 2006, 11:21 AM
- - schwab   QUOTE (impala454 @ Sep 25 2006, 04:54 PM)I wa...   Sep 26 2006, 11:31 AM
- - Testm0nkey   BUT IM FROM TEXAS   Sep 26 2006, 11:36 AM
- - impala454   QUOTE (schwab @ Sep 26 2006, 12:31 PM)So, wea...   Sep 26 2006, 01:04 PM
- - FORSAKENR320   QUOTE (impala454 @ Sep 26 2006, 01:04 PM)once...   Sep 26 2006, 01:22 PM
- - Jessica   I dont know if this has anything to do with this t...   Sep 26 2006, 05:59 PM
- - Spivey   QUOTE (impala454 @ Sep 26 2006, 01:04 PM) QUO...   Sep 26 2006, 06:06 PM


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