Mexicans were here first? Bullshit! Options

[Seeker]

Here's a copy of a good post from another message board. Some guy named scottlmcj totally owns those shithead Mexicans full of assbaggery that claim the Southern United States belongs to them.

I am trying to be serious here with this question. One of the arguements we hear from the Mexicans (once again referring to the Mexican nationals/illegal immigrants living in our country) is that they were here "first" and that they deserve to be here because of that. I take this to mean one of two things:

1. Mexico (the nation) owned large parts of the present day southwest United States. Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, California, etc were part of the Mexican nation. We took those lands away from them and they for some reason deserve them back.

This point makes absolutely no sense. First of all keep in mind that Mexico was not a nation until 1821. Before that it was a colony of Spain. Using the logic of "we were here first give it back" Spain (I know I am not counting the people that Spain slaughtered to take over the land, trust me I will get to that point) has MORE of a right to claim the American southwest than Mexico.

Mexico became a nation after taking those lands from Spain ni a rebellion/military action. That I guess gives the Mexicans their legitimate "claim" to these lands. However if their claim to that land is from their taking it by force from Spain that basically negates their modern day claim to alot of the "disputed" land in US hands.

At the end of the Mexican American War Mexico (granted with no realistic alternative) ceded much of the southwest but was paid for it. If Mexico/Mexicans have a realistic claim to these lands that they took from Spain by force then that merely legitimizes the US claims to the lands because they took them from Mexico/Mexicans.

In addition to those lands ceded to us after the Mexican American War (which Mexico was actually paid for by the way) we purchased quite a bit of land from Mexico with the Gadsen Purchase. Key word being purchased, as in we bought it, from Mexico. The Mexican claim over that land is about as legitimate as a bunch of Frenchmen showing up in Louisiana and saying they want it back.

In the case of Texas the United States got that through the annexation of the Republic of Texas. Mexico gave up Texas after the battle of San Jacinto. Yeah afterward they refused to recognize the soverignty of Texas, but China refuses to do the same for Taiwan and I think most people agree that Taiwan is a seperate nation.

After Texas won it's Independance from Mexico it was annexed by the United States after a majority of the voters in Texas agreed to a constitution.

I for one feel no guilt, or believe that Mexico or it's people have any real claim to those lands. Many Mexicans believe a fairy tale that if Mexico somehow retained those lands that modern day Mexico would be better off. Perhaps they would be slightly better off, but when your government is hopelessley corrupt (look at the huge oil wealth of Mexico) it won't help the common man at at all. The truth is if Mexico was still in posession of California then modern day LA would look like Juarez of Nuevo Laredo, not that some parts of it aren't already on their way there.

So long story short, you lost or gave up the land get over it and take a ride on the waaaaaaambulance.

The second arguement I hear is....

2. We are descendants of the native peoples of this land and we deserve them back.

I can understand this claim, and this seems far more legitimate than number 1 so lets look at it.

These people claim to be descendants of the native peoples that the Spaniards conquered and repressed, and to a latter extent the Mexicans. One of the most common tribes I hear claimed is the Aztecs and Mayans.

Here's a map of the Aztec Empire.



Doesn't exactly cover Texas, California, New Mexico, and alot of the areas the Mexicans are claiming does it? By the way that map also includes a large part of the Mayan Empire. I could be wrong but I think that it is even further away from modern day America than the Aztecs.

In fact here's a map of the Texas (the large ones) Indian tribes.



Nope, no Aztecs there. The closest thing is the Coahuiltecans, which actually was a collection of various bands of people and not an actual tribe. Even if these are the "natives" that the Mexicans are claiming to be descended from that doesn't give them a claim to all of Texas, and it sure as hell doesn't give them Mexico which you will see. Lets look at California since so many of these "native" Mexicans live there as well.



Damn no Aztecs there as well.

So I think we have established that the Aztecs never ruled California, Texas, New Mexico or those areas. Now there WERE plenty of native peoples and tribes in these areas. Just in Texas alone you have the Comanches, Kiowas, Apaches, and Wichitas. But all of these tribes were NORTH of the Aztecs and more along our side of the current day border.

Now correct me if my geography is off, but I believe that Mexico (where these illegals are coming from that are claiming to be natives) is South of both the US and where these tribes were established. So are we to believe a bunch of Apaches, Comanches, Navajos, Shosones, Kiowas and others migrated to modern day Mexico yet left no presence of evidence of their being there? And that these Mexicans lost all touch with their native selfs over the years and just now came back to their homeland?

Somehow I don't find this likely.

We have not seen the Mexicans pointing at the so called Indian tribes and saying "those are my people". They are not claiming that at all.

Basically the Mexicans using the "native descendants" claim are not claiming any relationship to the tribes that geographically supportive to their arguement.

Put that together with the fact that the tribes/civilizations that they are claiming the most to be a part of (and that would be the most credible ones to say they are a part of) NEVER WERE IN CONTROL OR LOCATED in the areas they claim and you can see this position doesn't really hold any water.

I could be wrong, I could be missing some information, but how can the Mexicans make these claims and have them be legitimate?

[Divergent Realit...]

horray for history buffs owning peoples.