Where do you stand, On different social things Options

[Hartmann]

I am guessing that given the more left leaning of this board, the answers are fairly obvious but I was wondering where people stood on the ideas of self-reliance, government intervention, and work.

My firm belief is that people as a whole must be self-reliant, that government should stay out unless it is needed, and hard work is necessary to succeed.

Where do you stand?

I listen to my brothers talk about what they want to do and I'm amazed at their goals. Nothing to do with hard work or being self-reliant but more along the lines of American Idol and "famous". It is one thing to dream of being a baseball player when you're young but I get this impression that we are becoming more and more focused on the easy route rather than the tough but rewarding one.

[Seeker]

I'm not advocating being completely self-reliant; just more-so than we all are today. I think cities foster an unhealthy dependence on corporations and the government. I think we should do away with large urban centers and live in small rural communities scattered across the States. I think we should do away with corporations and each one of us take up a skill. For example, I could be the local shoe-smith in my village and provide shoes for everyone. If someone doesn't like my shoes they can go to a neighboring village and buy some from the shoe-smith there. Corporations would become a thing of the past and that would be a good thing as Corporations are too powerful and get away with too many evil things. They also lobby the government for changes that are beneficial them but not for individuals or the people as a whole.

[Inferia]

I'm not advocating being completely self-reliant; just more-so than we all are today. I think cities foster an unhealthy dependence on corporations and the government. I think we should do away with large urban centers and live in small rural communities scattered across the States. I think we should do away with corporations and each one of us take up a skill. For example, I could be the local shoe-smith in my village and provide shoes for everyone. If someone doesn't like my shoes they can go to a neighboring village and buy some from the shoe-smith there. Corporations would become a thing of the past and that would be a good thing as Corporations are too powerful and get away with too many evil things. They also lobby the government for changes that are beneficial them but not for individuals or the people as a whole.

Well, I think that small rural communities scattered across the States would mean a major source for global climate change. That "going" to a neighboring village means that there will be 200 million cars on the street to buy that shoe you can't get in your village. This would also be an unhealthy dependence on unreliable, nonrenewable fossil fuel which is government by large governments and large corporations. As unhealthy and polluted as cities may seem, they are "better" for the environment. Instead of every family destroying a piece of natural land to build their 3 bedroom house with a garage, you build up inside of wide. Shipping of material goods are more centralized, and people are less dependent on motor transportation in their every day life. Perhaps the US can afford to "sprawl", the rest of the world can't afford to do such a thing, if they did so, there wouldn't be room for farm land, thus making them even more reliant on someone else.

[Seeker]

Well, I think that small rural communities scattered across the States would mean a major source for global climate change. That "going" to a neighboring village means that there will be 200 million cars on the street to buy that shoe you can't get in your village. This would also be an unhealthy dependence on unreliable, nonrenewable fossil fuel which is government by large governments and large corporations. As unhealthy and polluted as cities may seem, they are "better" for the environment. Instead of every family destroying a piece of natural land to build their 3 bedroom house with a garage, you build up inside of wide. Shipping of material goods are more centralized, and people are less dependent on motor transportation in their every day life. Perhaps the US can afford to "sprawl", the rest of the world can't afford to do such a thing, if they did so, there wouldn't be room for farm land, thus making them even more reliant on someone else.

Are you kidding me? I think shipping leather and other shoe supplies from the U.S. to China to manufacture the shoes and then shipping the finished product back to the U.S. is infinitely more polluting and bad for the environment than just driving to the neighboring town a buying and pair of shoes. Use some common sense.

[Inferia]

Are you kidding me? I think shipping leather and other shoe supplies from the U.S. to China to manufacture the shoes and then shipping the finished product back to the U.S. is infinitely more polluting and bad for the environment than just driving to the neighboring town a buying and pair of shoes. Use some common sense.

It's not just that. Perhaps shipping supplies to China and then back to the US in order to sell it is bad on the environment, but this is a very limited view on what puts more CO2 in the ozone. What about that house that everyone will be building instead of a tall building? What about that piece of swamp land that is now a sub-division? What about driving around in a car so we can get anywhere? What about heating that individual home? What about building a heater for each and individual household instead of one large one for the complex? The pipes that would have to run across the country to get water to places? The upkeep of the pipes? The list goes on... There's something to be said about having more localized production, but it's whole nuther thing to eliminate cities.

[Seeker]

It's not just that. Perhaps shipping supplies to China and then back to the US in order to sell it is bad on the environment, but this is a very limited view on what puts more CO2 in the ozone. What about that house that everyone will be building instead of a tall building? What about that piece of swamp land that is now a sub-division? What about driving around in a car so we can get anywhere? What about heating that individual home? What about building a heater for each and individual household instead of one large one for the complex? The pipes that would have to run across the country to get water to places? The upkeep of the pipes? The list goes on...

Just because I said to live in a small village doesn't mean that everyone has to live in a huge separate mansions. They would be similar to cities but on a much much smaller scale. The majority would be located around existing water sources. Secondly you can build all the houses out of the renewable materials and design to it to fit into the environment instead of fuck it up. As for transportation we should have had a Manhattan style project for a new energy source long ago, but as I've said before corporations are standing in the way of that. We should also have underground mag trains linking major areas. All of this is possible today but corporations and the elite are standing in the way.

[Inferia]

Just because I said to live in a small village doesn't mean that everyone has to live in a huge separate mansions. They would be similar to cities but on a much much smaller scale. The majority would be located around existing water sources. Secondly you can build all the houses out of the renewable materials and design to it to fit into the environment instead of fuck it up. As for transportation we should have had a Manhattan style project for a new energy source long ago, but as I've said before corporations are standing in the way of that. We should also have underground mag trains linking major areas. All of this is possible today but corporations and the elite are standing in the way.

How do you want to get this done without education, research, or a government? I'm not sure if corporations are standing in the way of it. People are standing in the way of it. Companies want to make money, as long as they can make money, they'll do what they're doing. As long as we keep driving our cars, they'll sell us gas and as long as the supermarket is 40 min. walking distance from the nearest home, we'll be driving our cars. And as long as the American people want a four bedroom house, with a white picketed fence and a large back yard so Spike can run around in it, the nearest supermarket will be a 40 min. walk away. Until one of these days when people realize we can't have everything in this world and the next world over, I think it's very hard to change the shape of modern day corporations.

[Seeker]

How do you want to get this done without education, research, or a government?

I think we need education but not in the state it's in today. Today's schooling kills the natural curiosity of the student and their will to learn. Students are taught to memorize answers for tests and not actual critical thinking and reasoning skills. I could have condensed all four years of my high school into two and learned a whole lot more and been whole lot better off.

I didn't say to get rid of all government, but to invert it. The most power should rest with the local government and the least power should rest with the Federal government. Nowadays it's reversed. The Federal government's only tasks should be to coin money and protect the country from outside threats. We need to go back to what the founding fathers envisioned.

[Billy]

I think we need education but not in the state it's in today. Today's schooling kills the natural curiosity of the student and their will to learn. Students are taught to memorize answers for tests and not actual critical thinking and reasoning skills. I could have condensed all four years of my high school into two and learned a whole lot more and been whole lot better off.

I didn't say to get rid of all government, but to invert it. The most power should rest with the local government and the least power should rest with the Federal government. Nowadays it's reversed. The Federal government's only tasks should be to coin money and protect the country from outside threats. We need to go back to what the founding fathers envisioned.

So how do you plan on teaching critical thinking and reasoning skills to 40 kids all at once? There are not enough teachers for the one on one treatment students need to learn everything they need to learn. So they are doing the best we can with what we have.

And I do not want to go back to "what the founding fathers envisioned". For the longest time, America was a third world country.

[Hartmann]

And I do not want to go back to "what the founding fathers envisioned". For the longest time, America was a third world country.

Huh?

Yeah, that's why people are flocking to Vietnam, most of Africa, and eastern Europe.

We were isolationists but we weren't third world. I have never read any accounts where historians refer to the U.S. as "third world".